Will Neocate cure my ebf 5 month old's eczema ? Let me know your experience before I reluctantly ditch Bfing

[thegrandsophy]

We have a strong family history of food allergies/atopy. dc2 has suffered from all over body eczema since 3 months and been treated by gp with steroids to marginal effect. Has always been exclusively bf. I decided to cut out dairy 10 days ago but saw dermatologist yesterday who said I should stop breast feeding and start her on neocate formula. I am happy to live on a very restricted diet for the next few months rather than give up bfing completely ie increase restrictions above simply dairy but she said I could never restrict my diet sufficiently and better just to give her formula which was completely clean. Am a bit upset and am worried that I could go through all the trauma of stopping breast feeding immediately and then find out it doesn't make that much difference but obviously want to do what is best for her. Any stories of miracle cures would be appreciated and how long does it take?

Thank you all for the advice. I am going to see what the tests show and take it from there. I am now excluding soy and eggs and will see if that makes a difference. I am not averse to her having some formula as a back up and for during the day when I go back to work but I just don't think I am ready to go cold turkey on bf-ing yet....and also think the protests would be quite significant. Saw gp today who was aghast at thought of neocate and v pro bring but think he might have ulterior motive wrt cost.

Me again - not sure if this can help, but I met with a dietitian today talking about DD's allergies and BF. Basically she advised to continue BF while introducing new potential allergens to her diet (such as nuts, fish, tomatoes, any that haven't been detected so far), because breastmilk will protect the baby throughout while formula won't.

She advised me to BF until 12 months (BF sessions only morning and night - baby won't "need" it anymore during the day after 10/11 months) and give soy milk from then, if I wish to stop BF.

tbh i am aghast that they would recomend stopping bfeeding! i have sevre eczema myself and was veyr wary that my own children would get it, the eldest has the odd dry bit of skin and had some problems as a baby, including very bad impetigo but i was told by own consultant dermatologist and the allergy clinic that the BEST thing i could do would be to bfeed for as along as possible and if necessary then cut out dairy and obvious allergens from my diet.

i did cut out dairy, which was not to hard, esp as it aggravates my own skin so i never ate much dairy anyway.

i agree with what other posters have said about it not only being diet related but also could be due to house dust mite, pets, pollen, etc, also lanolin is a very common allergy in eczema suffers so make sure not to use any creams etc with that in. do NOT bath you dc very often, it will simply dry the skin out more, even IF you put emollients etc in the water.

other things you can do and probably laready are doing, ALL cotton clothes, bedding etc which you can wash on a high temp to kill of dust mites etc, what washing powder do you use? do you use fabric softner etc? these tend to make eczema worse.

you can also buy special cotton clothes with silver in and organic cotton pjs etc to help with night itching, all these things may help and are worth trying.

sorry this is a bit rushed but am in middle of dinner, bedtime routine etc!

hope you see some improvement soon but i would expect it to take up to a month if not longer and it will be a gradual thing, not a miraculous cure, i am afraid you cant get that for eczema xxxx

Grrr. Lost posts twice with site crashing. That is really interesting eskimomama about bfing being protective during weaning. My other dc has horrendous food allergies despite bfing her until 11 months ) though she was mix fed from 6 months) but I suppose things can always be worse. We had baby's blood tests today so will wait until they have the results back to decide what to do. Consultant still is adamant that if she has multiple positives rather than a single stand out one like cmp we would be better off on neocate. Ho hum. I am getting used to the diet though - just one of those things like sleepless nights etc. Just part of parenting!
4madboys I didn't mean to be glib with my title - I am beginning to realise that whatever we do we are going to have to live with eczema for the longterm. It is just getting used to it. I have switched to surcare washing liquid. Do you think this is the best? I think I will get some special night wear to see if this improves things too.

Not read all the posts but I'd be very about being told Neocate would "cure" your DC. Fwiw my DD1 was CMP intolerant and was allergic to the prescribed hypoallergenic formula (Nutramigen iirc) so I was flipping glad i kept BF-ing through all the drama and just went on a STRICT DF diet myself. We finally found she did best on Wysoy which I used when weaning onto solids and after she self weaned at 11mths.

exczema is most likely caused from dairy intolerance - i gave uip dairy and bf for 18 months. neocate tastes disgusting and is very expensive, my ds woulldn't touch it

thegrandsophy, i didnt think you were being glib with your title! tbh i am just hugely suprised and annoyed by a consultant telling you that he thinks your childs eczema will improve simply by switching from bfeeding to a special formula!

eczema tends to be far more than just an allergy to one thing, like you say it may be many and the reality is that current information shows that bfeeding is the best thing to do, esp for a child with allergies.

if you are happy to restrict your diet then go for it, it is worth trying most things, and the special pjs etc are quite good at helping to ease night time itching, which must be a nightmare for both of you i sympathise i truly do, i think people often underestimate the effect taht eczema can have on someones life, i know that i often suffer badly from lack of sleep as i can spend hours being awake with itchy sore skin or i itch in my sleep and that restless sleep doesnt do you any good. the skin feels sore, dry and extremely uncomfortable, it must be awful for a baby

i hope you find something that helps xxx

My 6 month old has had quite severe eczema for a few months, and has just been diagnosed with dairy and egg allergies, plus some nuts and sesame seeds. A dietician has advised me to stop BF and switch to Neocate. One of the reasons she gave was that if I go dairy and egg free I'll risk not providing my son with enough calcium. Does anyone have any advice on dairy and egg free diets? I'm feeling quite desperate for my boy who is not sleeping at night cos of the itching. Thanks.

oh god that old argument you wont get enough calcium in your diet if you go dairy free....

sorry i have to deal with my toddler and do school run etc but that really is rubbish, i am sure there are plenty of threads on mumsnet about calcium intake, have you done a thread search?

if you eat a good balanced diet, you WILL get enough calcium despite not eating dairy.

i will try and come back to this later

I am dairy, soy, egg, gluten and nut-free due to dd2's intolerances and no-one discouraged me from doing this. Your HV or GP should provide you with a calcium supplement. Your LO WILL get enough calcium, but your bones will be leached to get it so best to top up

Hi RMQ. My 18 month boy is on a dairy free diet and it is not that scary - honest.

For weaning there are plenty of 'normal' recipes that are dairy and egg free - e.g. veggie puree and fruit puree's. Go to the library and borrow the baby food books and look through.

If you wish to use bought shop baby food the brand Organix have a few products that are dairy and egg free ( we have used them when on hols for ease of use when out and about).

Look at vegan websites because they are fantastic for ideas and alternative products.

Processed/ready made foods are problematic so get the blender handy and lots of little pots to stick in the freezer and you'll be spending quite abit of time in the kitchen!

We are now on Neocate but it is the advanced version. I think you can use Neocate in cooking but please check with your dietician and what other milk substitutes they may look at. They won't let us near soya at the moment but there are rice milks, oat milk etc... But all have pro's and cons so you need their guidance on what is best for your boy.

I find it trickier with my YS regarding puddings but

Just to add: dd2 is under a gastro consultant for her intolerances. He said that although we've probably only got a handle on about 80% of her intolerances, BF will do her more good than harm despite her continued sore tummies and reflux.

BTW how old is your LO? Gastro told us that RAST is fairly inaccurate and inconclusive, but I'm seriously considering asking for it to be done on dd2 (6mths) as I'm finding her symptoms really difficult to cope with in tandem with looking after another dc.

Oh dear, OP, what a nightmare for you. Please don't feel pressured to give up breastfeeding, especially as you are so committed to doing what you can to control your diet. BF is so much more than 'just food', and Neocate is certainly not a guaranteed miracle cure. (Calcium is not a problem for your LO if you are still BF, although as hobnob says, you should perhaps get supplements for yourself.)

Do what YOU think is right, after you have collected some evidence; this might not be what your HCPs say unless they are allergy / breastfeeding specialists.

BTW, I'm still BF my DS, who has multiple food allergies and is now 19 months old. Currently we don't eat dairy, egg, onions, garlic, nuts, tomatoes, peppers, chilli powder and a few more things besides... I identified all these foods by keeping a v. detailed diary of what I ate while I was still ebf and have since had most of them confirmed by an allergy specialist. Cooking can feel like hard work sometimes but we both eat a balanced diet and I like to know that the whole house is a 'safe zone' so that my DS doesn't feel he is being deprived of anything. His eczema flares up if I accidentally eat any of the foods he is allergic to. Otherwise he is now totally eczema free (we are very lucky that it is all food related and not dust mites etc.)

Hope everything works out for you.

I've just skim read the replies and have two things I want to mention: breast feeding vs neocate and E45.

B/f v Neocate - do what you want and what you think is right. I didn't, I listened and DD (now 18mths) is fine and well but I still feel awful and occasionally guilty. Having said that I think it was a bit too late as I had been "forced" to give formula by midwifes but that's another story and one I keep trying to forget. Keep with it and if in another 6 weeks there's no change then revisit it. However, hayfever will aggrevate it (pollen) and one thing I found is that open windows allow pollen onto bedding which does NOT help!

E45: I was recently diagnosed with psoriasis and my GP gave me a fantastic info sheet about treating it which also related to exzema. To cut long story short it said that E45 and Diprobase can be more irritating for children (my eldest has both of these creams!) and that a good alternative is Cetreben. I since asked for her to have this and her skin (and mine) has improved significantly. ALSO remember to ensure that you only use SLS/SLA/Paraben free products including shampoos, conditioners, bath products and that bath is cleaned well before your baby goes in it with "good" cleaning products (or with a vinegar spray which will cut through most things but doesn't contain irritating baddies)! This is not something that many people remember and although I'm sure you do it's worth mentioning.

GOOD LUCK!

Hi My DS 6.5 months had milk, egg and peanut allergies and severe eczema. I was BF but gave it up and switched to Neocate, mainly because with a toddler and the severe eczema to deal with i didnt feel i could give the time to restrict my diet to the level i needed to. Anyway to answer your question, the Neocate dramatically reduced his gastrointestinal symptoms - wind, cramps, bloating but MADE NO DIFFERENCE TO HIS ECZEMA. He is on Neocate over 3 months now and his eczema is still very bad.

I was concerned that i had started the allergies as i was eating all the foods he was allergic to while i was BF but the dietican assured me that BFing him was the best things i could have done, and while he was exposed to the allergens through my milk he would probably have been worse had that not happened. She also said it will be easier to identify other food allergies when im weaning as it will be his second exposure to the food (having been exposed from my milk) and therefore he would react the first time he eats them as a lot of the times they dont react until the second exposure.

I would say keep BF if thats what you want and dont let anyone put you under pressure to stop.

Greenbananas - can i ask, you say your LO is eczema free now, my DS only has food allergies, he was on Neocate only so no exposure to the foods yet his eczema is still as bad. I asked in the hospital about this and they couldnt really explain it. I would have assumed that once he wasnt being exposed to the allergens his body wouldnt be reacting and the eczema would go.

My sympathies. Eczema is complicated and IME excluding food takes time to have an effect, though you should see an initial improvement within a few weeks. Unfortunately there is no definitive test and it's hard to pinpoint with multiple exclusions. I am also not a big fan of hit and miss, wait and see exclusions and prefer to have some indication that what we are excluding will help. (I'm a control freak!)

We are under a dietician and an allergy consultant for DS's eczema / bowel issues and have had RAST tests but also use alternative practitioners (not always popular on here). We used bio kinetic testing to screen hundreds of foods to give us a better chance of not missing something - OK with soya but not wheat - it's all really individual.

We also had problems with creams etc and eventually found that anything petroleum or nut / seed oil based was a problem. Using muscle resistant Kinesiology test, we found something that was OK. We are still not perfect but much better. I'm currently struggling with what to do to move us on to the next step as it's really hard to cope with the fact that everyone thinks they have the answer when in fact it's much more complicated than that. (We also use Homeopathy which seems to help a bit too.)

Lima1, I'm so sorry to hear your DS's eczema is still bad and I wish there was something really useful I could say. Like you, I would have assumed that once he was not being exposed to the allergens his eczema would start to clear up... but I don't know a whole lot about eczema in general - just what worked for us. Maybe our LOs have different types of eczema? or maybe there's an environmental factor you haven't identified yet?

It's true that my DS is now generally eczema free. He has quite serious food allergies to the things I listed above - and now he is eating for himself it's easy to tell because he has immediate reactions, ranging from a red, hivey rash to swelling and call-the-ambulance style breathing difficulties. Some other foods (citrus, apricots and cherries etc.) do not provoke a major reaction but do result in him having a recurrence of eczema the next day. These 'eczema foods' were much more difficult to identify and for about 8 months I kept a really control-freaky diary of everything we both ate.

As DeidreB so wisely says, it's all really individual. Everybody reacts to slightly different things. I hope your LO's eczema improves soon - in relation to OP's original post, it's interesting (though sad) that you say Neocate wasn't a cure in your case. Good luck.

It does make me despair when consultants do this - we had the same thing when ds started having blood in his poo aged 3 months, as well as eczema. I gave up dairy and gluten but it did not improve hugely - so at 5 months I relented and spoon fed him small amounts of neocate. Let me stress that neocate tastes DISGUSTING. I had to force feed him it on a spoon. He only had about 100 mls a day of it, but funnily enough it seemed to sort out the blood in his poo. I did not stop breastfeeding, and I kept a fairly restricted diet until he was about one. Then I gradually reintroduced foods into my diet but kept him dairy and gluten free until he was 3. He is now fine and eats everything. I breast fed him until he was two.

He did have very bad patches of eczema. I found Aveeno was the only thing that sorted it out.

HTH

Hello
I saw a fantastic Consultant Nurse in Dermatology at Queen's Medical Centre in Nottingham. She was really happy to try lots of different emollients and steroid creams until we found the right ones. We got really close to having to go down the food allergy tasting route. It is worth asking to try new creams as well as trying to cut out foods and I hope you continue you to breastfeed. Have you also tried wraps? Where you put steroids into bandages to help them get into the skin? Obviously I don't know much about how this works but it might be worth asking about it. I don't know if this link can help you but it might have something interesting on it www.nottinghameczema.org.uk/

We did eventually get it under control after seeing our consultant nurse for about 5 months and he now just has the odd patch and flares up a bit when he has colds or other bugs.He has since been diagnosed as having an allergy to sesame seeds and he has been reacting to lentils although his blood test did not confirn an allergy to them but they never got to the bottom of what caused his excema to flare up in the first place.

www.nottinghameczema.org.uk/nsgccedata/PILs%20Handouts/01%20Allergy%20tests%20for%20Atopic%20 Eczema.pdf

Try copy and pasting this into your browser and read this article about allergy testing and atopic eczema. Might be worth taking this info to your consultant at your next appointment as it seems to suggest that it is very hard to cure eczema by just cutting out food that they may be allergic to.

Lots of luck for the future

x

nappychanger thanks for this great link.

I dont know nearly as much about this as most of you, but can I just sencond the citrus fruit thing? My sister was in the same position - bf baby, mother was dairy and nut free due to her own allergies/intolerances, but baby stil had raging all body eczema. Cutting out citrus fruit solved the problem. I know it's not that simple for everyone, but citrus is a good thing to avoid

I remembered i read these articles a while back and started using the avene stuff- it's in Boots, prob not suitable for babies, but interesting and maybe helpful?

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel/good_spa_guide/article3886587.ece

www.dailym ail.co.uk/health/article-54548/Thermal-spring-offers-hope-eczema-sufferers.html

Nappychanger1974 that patient information link is absolutely great. I have just looked at nearly all the articles on it - very well written and sensible. Thank you so much.

Lima1 am sorry to hear that your ds's excema is still bad. Your story is exactly what I am worried about. Having been on a ruthless exclusion of CMP for 3 weeks now and seeing no improvement I am very suspicious that neocate is going to make things much better - in fact one of the articles in nappychanger's link seems to suggest that food allergies are poorly understood as triggers.

Well, we have got a tub of the evil stuff to try out but baby is having absolutely none of it but to be fair she hasn't really taken a bottle yet so am going to try hard with expressed milk first and then try mixing it gradually. Urgh. I HATE expressing and hence haven't done it at all this time round. I do need for her to be able to have a bottle a bit even if I do continue bfing. Am fully expecting the RAST tests to be inconclusive and then I am not going to know what to do but I am holding out for the results at the moment.

I do think we need to find an emollient and steroid that really work for us as so far we seem to be aggravating the situation tho' was interested in those articles that they recommend 10 minutes break after bathing before applying emollients as I had been told to get it on as quickly as possible by the GP - that really seems to make her skin flare. Ho hum. Tomorrow another day and all that

I have not read through the whole thread but my LO eczema improved (read that as totally cleared up!) when I stopped bf (at 6 months) and went on to Neocate. We have since found that he is intolerant to so many things (inc CMP, wheat, eggs, soya, nuts, oats, sesame) and he was getting traces of these via the breast milk. We have since cut all these out of his diet, he is thriving on Neocate and he is a very healthy little boy now with no eczema

I am not saying stop bf all I am saying is in my situation stopping helped his poorly skin. I am pregnant again and I will breastfeed again.