cradle cap & red rash on newborn

[ZTP]

My 5 wk old started to get cradle cap which has now spread to his eyebrows and forehead. Our GP prescribed hydrocortisone 0.5%. I was reluctant to use it but ended up using it for a couple of days as his forehead got red & looked inflamed. Ended up using it on his cheeks as well as they've become red, dry and rough. Have also noticed that he's developing small red spots on his neck, upper torso and back and it's looking like a rash.
Have stopped the hydrocortisone & using E45 lotion on his face to soften all the dry & flaky skin, another of the GP's reccomendation. Originally used olive olive but that didn't seem to do anything. Have been using Oilatum to bathe him & started using detinox on his scalp yesterday. To be honest, am not keen on using all this stuff on him as his skin's still so thin & sensitive.
It's upsetting to see him suddenly breaking out in all these things so any tips/advice would be much appreciated. Thanx.

I used baby oil for cradle cap on DD, brush head with brush once on and it helps it remove it. It can take a while for the cradle cap to go but keep using the baby oil it really does the trick.
DD did get a rash on her face when she was a baby and i bough diprobase over the counter and a stopped using bubble bath in her bath, She cleared up in no time.

would stay away from the cream. Olive oil is very good - but it all takes a long time, My DD2 is now almost 17 weeks & she still has some cradle cap.

Keep oiling his head (apricot oil is fab & really soaked & softened the dry bits), when it looks softer, run your nail VERY gently over the scales & they should start to lift. Wash gently.

The rash is just the hormone leaving the baby, they all do it around about the 5/6 week mark, really doesn't need any special ointment as it's prefectly normal. He'll be looking lovely & peachy in no time at all

My ds and dd both had exactly the same problem - cradle cap and atopic ezcema over the rest of their bodies. It's horrid when it starts spreading over the face, but don't worry! If it's looking angry red, then it has probably got infected which happens very easily when you are rubbing cream into the skin all the time. (make sure your hands are v clean and try to get an emollient with a pump so your hands arent always in the tub). This can be treated v easily. I agree, you don't want to use a strong hydrocrtisone cream on such a young babe. We use 'Fucidin H', which is a v v mild steroid cream that also combats any infection. Ask you gp about this. We use it every time the skin looks a bit angry, but just a v little amount. Keep going back to the gp until you find an emollient that you think makes a difference. I had to go back about 20 times! My ds and dd were both allergic to E45 because of the lanolin in it, so I would ask for a lanolin-free cream from the gp. Olive oil gets so messy so I gave up with that. For the cradle cap, I kept getting told to massage it with olive oil, blah-blah-blah, but it just kept getting infected. The doctors always say not to worry because it'll clear up eventually. But it got so bad and it was making me v depressed. It can't be nice for the LO either, as the skin gets tight and itchy. We were given a shampoo called Nizoral (which is an anti-dandruff shampoo). It's brilliant and got rid of it after 2 washes, so I'd recommend it. I still have to use it on ds about once every 2wks to keep it in check. I reckon I know more about ezcema that our gp and he now gives me whatever cream i ask for. Don't give up - keep going back until you're happy!

My ds got craddle cap at 7 weeks. By 9 weeks he also had incredibly dry skin in his forehead, eyebrows & face. At 13 weeks he now has very dry skin just about everywhere, much worse in his creases. It sounds just like your son. I don't have the solution but can tell you what we have gone through.

We tried oil for weeks on his head with no luck.

Also tried Diprobase on his face and it made it worse.

Tried E45 on his face with no improvement.

We tired Polytar shampoo which was just too strong and made the skin awfully red.

We also use Oilatum in the bath (don't know if it makes a difference).

We used a hydrocortisone cream for 7 days only on his neck creases & ears as the skin was just raw. It made it better but I wouldn't like to keep using it.

Then moved to Double Base which made the craddle cap a lot softer and most of it came off - however it has all come back.

His skin is still incredibly dry if we don't apply the cream 4 times a day. His cheeks seems to be angry one day and Ok the next.

I don't think we have found the right solution for him (all creams above where prescribed by the GP). I have agreed with the GP to keep going back until we find what suits him. The GP is certain this is eczema and that we'll find something.

It is great to hear your experiences - very useful input to discuss with the GP.

Are you breastfeeding, if you are, express some milk and put that on it. My dd had dandruff of the entire body for weeks after she was born, I tried olive oil, calendular oil, baby oil, nothing made any difference, just kept coming back everytime you changed her babygrow there was a cloud of skin dust. Somebody said try breast milk, fixed it within three days, amazing.

My DD is exactly the same. I just put any old cream on her. The best I've used so far has been Aveeno (although my clarins dry skin moisturiser was pretty good too) I also got a fab sample of calendula cream or something like that from green baby.
Olive oil won't work as it just sits on the surface and doesn't sink it. You need to add water and grease.
Pretty much any cream will do, just slap it on, but I do like Aveeno (and the lavender one smells just gorgeous on little babies).

We use Diprobase ( a soft moisturising cream for when the skin is a little dry), Epaderm ( a thick vaseline-type cream for when its really dry), Dermol 500 (an emollient and antibacterial cream that you add to the bathwater), and Fucidin H for the red and angry skin.

But every baby is different so what works for us may not work for you. Just thought I'd let you know how many creams we have to use!

Oh yeah, and get some Ecoballs for the washing machine. They clean clothes ionically rather than with detergent (much cheaper, saves water and better for the environment too). Using them has really helped my son's skin.

Having visited the GP again we have been told to replace Double Base for Epaderm as the skin is not improving.

Double base really softened the craddle cap and all the really think nasty scales came off (softer ones have totally replaced them).

Epaderm is to be used everywhere (except for the nappy area). As "atlasthebrute" says it is like vaseline. Incredibly messy. But we are going to give it a go for 2 weeks.

This GP agrees Polytar is too strong for babies (we seem to see a different GP everytime).

So the current advice from the GP is:

Bath - Oilatum only - nothing else to clean body or head.

Nappy area - Sudocream

Body & head - Epaderm - 4 times a day

For very raw areas - hydrocortisone

I'll let you know how it goes....I can't wait to see his skin clear up.

It's so frustrating that GPs prescribe steroid creams at the drop of a hat and expect you to slather your baby in that for god knows how long. Anyhows, i tried the following on my DS, hope it helps. He's still got cradle cap and dry skin but as it's a natural process am trying hard not to overload his young skin with anymore products, as tempting as the urge to shift it all is.

E45 cream - on cheeks and eyebrows. It helped to soften both areas and reduced the redness of the cheeks. Eyebrows are still dry but alot better than before as they were caked in dry flaky skin.

Hydrocortisone cream - reluctantly used it when cheeks were red and looked inflamed. Only used it a few times so not sure whether it worked or not.

Oilatum - not sure if it actually did any good in the bath so stopped using it.

Detinox Cradle Cap shampoo - didn't seem to clear cradle cap even though some friends recommended it. Not sure if i'm imagining it but it seemed to dry baby's head as well. Stopped using this also.

Neal's Yard baby oil - have started using this in the bath and it seems to help soften DS's skin. I use it on his skin after his bath also and it doesn't feel greasy like lots of other oils.

Random tip - this might sound a bit mean, as we're constricting his movement, but we ended up putting DS's arms in his grobag overnight and sometimes in his babygro also so that he couldn't scratch his face. Mitts don't really work as he was always rubbing them across his face. I have to say, it seemed to help reduce the red angry dry skin on his face (though it's a bit of a task to keep his arms in the babygro/grobag overnight as he always managed to get them out at some stage).

Regarding the scratching I really need to do something about it. My 13 week ds wakes up with awful scratches in his scalp, forehead and eyes. The problem is he really likes to suck his thums to put himself back to sleep so feel really guilty putting mitts or similar.
Agree about the steroid creams - we have used it very little. A doctor friend tells me to avoid it using it unless desperate.
Epaderm has made the craddle cap flakes really soft but when they come off the skin underneath is really red and the head is a constant greasy mess. I don't mind how ugly or messy it might look but at the moment I don't see any improvement at all.....

My 3 year old had bad skin when little - still can be a bit iffy. Dr gives us aveeno on prescription which does help and steroid for when it is v bad - I find ointment better than cream because need to use less. Also, when he was little he had cradle cap and olive oil rubbed into his head helped - make sure you clean them behind their ears or it goes rancid - v embarrassing when you see the doctor...also dr said that once the flakes on the head were dry you could pick them off carefully - he was horrified when I proudly showed him my baby's scaly head which I'd resisted picking. DS used to get sore round his mouth and dr suggested vaseline over the area that tended to flare up every meal time - that really helped - make sure you pat the area dry first. Finally, if his bum gets sore (often a prob if they are prone to sensitive skin) I used to feed him nappyless but with a shower curtain underneath him and also to dry off after bath/cleaning (only used cotton wool and water up to 5 months or so) using low heat hairdryer - god knows what fetishes I've stored up for him in later life...

forgot to say - my health visitor was not keen on e45 - preferred acqueous cream which has less added to it - again on prescription and also we used to put one of those little cotton nightcaps on DS when he was asleep and it did stop him scratching his head.

mama30- try Nizoral shampoo on baby's scalp. You can either get it on prescription or from the chemist yourself. My son's scalp was red and greasy after his cradle cap came off, but this shampoo is EXCELLENT at calming it down and gets rid of it after just a couple of shampoos. It's an anti-dandruff shampoo but it was prescribed to my son, so it's safe to use (and great). Just use a little, rub it all over, leave for a minute then rinses off easily. Made my son a much happier boy! He kept putting gashes all over his scalp too, no matter how short I managed to get his fingernails. He looked like he'd been thrown through a window or a bramble hedge! Try a thin hat on baby's head at night. However, after using Nizoral, the itchiness cleared up and he never did it again.

Also, I was told to use a lighter emollient than Epaderm on his cradle cap. This is because the skin is so oily underneath and the Epaderm just makes it more greasy. After you shampoo his head with Nizoral, pat it dry and gently rub in some Diprobase or Aqueous cream or something similar. THe next morning, it'll look great!

My dd also had cradle cap on eyebrows and head for ages. We used aqueous cream as a soap/shampoo and it cleared up.
I think a lot of newborns have this kind of thing and they end up clearing up on their own.

At what age can you start using Nizoral on your baby & is it strong stuff? Mine is 8 weeks and am worried that i'm using too many products on him but if Nizoral seems to work then am keen to try it.

My DD also suffers from dry skin on her body and the only thing that seems to help is vasoline. As it is quite think I tend only to use it at bedtime. All the creams recommend by our Pedi were useless. I haven't read all of this thread so sorry if someone has already suggested this.

Also, is it usual for the cradle cap area to smell (can't describe the smell, it just smells unwashed and dirty). Read something on netdoctor.com saying that it could be a fungal infection if it smells. But am thinking it's just the build up of skin which is bound to cause some sort of a smell.

Don't know if it's usual but my ds's head certainly smells just like you say - unwashed. I agree that it must be the build up of skin & the grease of the many cream applications. Not nice as it would be nice for a baby to have lovely baby smell...
Atlasthebrute - thank you for the Nizoral tip. Am also worried about using so many products on a 13 week old but will discuss with GP on Thursday when back after 2 week trial with Epaderm (which I agree I think makes the scalp too greasy).

Blyton- my son started with Nizoral around 9 or 10 weeks. It's not nasty stuff. I was told to wash my son's head with it every 2-3 days until it cleared-up. I washed it only every 4 days, and it cleared after 2 washes.

If the head smells (my son's did), then it probably has a low-grade infection in it. It's very easy for infection to get in with the constant rubbing of cream and scratching (get a pump-action tub of cream so your hands arent in it all the timed). Also, the oils underneath the cradle cap tend to have a rather pungent smell. You may notice that baby's glands are a little swollen( the ones at the base of the skull were lumpy on my son until the infection cleared). The Nizoral should clear it, then our GP suggested using a tiny tiny amount of the Fucidin H on the very red, scratched bits that were open to infection. Fucidin H is a v mild steroid to combat infection and to stop itching and bring down redness. We still use the Fucidin H on flare-up days and it works wonders.

DON'T listen to GPs who say that it will clear up on its own accord given time. What is the point in constantly lifting-off the cradle cap only for it to come straight back again? There's no sense in it. My son was driven to distraction with the scratching. If we'd left it, he probably would have left some horrible scars. If a grown-up were to go into a GPs with a similar skin-problem,it would be treated ASAP. Just because they are babies shouldnt mean that they can't have the same treatment. There ARE thinks to help treat it.

Blyton- my son started with Nizoral around 9 or 10 weeks. It's not nasty stuff. I was told to wash my son's head with it every 2-3 days until it cleared-up. I washed it only every 4 days, and it cleared after 2 washes.

If the head smells (my son's did), then it probably has a low-grade infection in it. It's very easy for infection to get in with the constant rubbing of cream and scratching (get a pump-action tub of cream so your hands arent in it all the timed). Also, the oils underneath the cradle cap tend to have a rather pungent smell. You may notice that baby's glands are a little swollen( the ones at the base of the skull were lumpy on my son until the infection cleared). The Nizoral should clear it, then our GP suggested using a tiny tiny amount of the Fucidin H on the very red, scratched bits that were open to infection. Fucidin H is a v mild steroid to combat infection and to stop itching and bring down redness. We still use the Fucidin H on flare-up days and it works wonders.

DON'T listen to GPs who say that it will clear up on its own accord given time. What is the point in constantly lifting-off the cradle cap only for it to come straight back again? There's no sense in it. My son was driven to distraction with the scratching. If we'd left it, he probably would have left some horrible scars. If a grown-up were to go into a GPs with a similar skin-problem,it would be treated ASAP. Just because they are babies shouldnt mean that they can't have the same treatment. There ARE thinks to help treat it.

Latest update: I have used Epaderm everywhere for 5 weeks on my almost 4 month ds.

Cons: it is very very messy, your clothes look a mess as soon as you hold your baby, his hats, coats, etc get greasy as soon as they are on.

Pros: craddle cap has gone. Slowly but surely all the large nasty looking yellow scales have come off. He has very very few that can hardly be seen. The scalp does not look red anymore as it always did. The hair has also come off with the scales bu GP warned me it would happen. I can't belive it's all gone (and no more unclean smell).

The body is better, the creases not as red. The neck is almost normal. His body is still very dry but no red patches.

To avoid the mess I asked the GP for Aveeno (lots of mums on mumsnet recommend it). I tried it and a day later he had his red rash back all over his torso. Against my wishes I stopped using it and am back on Epaderm.

Any other updates??

My ds still has cradle cap. I managed to lift alot of it off but it all came back so am going to leave it alone for a while and then figure out what to do. He's now got really scaly hard slightly red skin on his arms and thighs. Am thinking it could be cradle cap also. Does anyone's baby have this also ? And what creams help to soften the hard skin ?And how often should i apply them ? Want to stay away from chemically based stuff, would prefer organic natural products but unfortunately the stuff that i'm using (Neal's Yard balm & baby oil, Calendula lotion and cream,) isn't really helping and i can't bear to use the really thick stuff (ie., epiderm, diprobase etc...). I had a rash on my body towards the end of my pregnancy and remembered applying similar gloppy type ointments and creams on my body and it felt really horrible so don't want to do the same to my ds.

mama30 - ps am glad your son's cradle cap has gone. Well done. Also, re: the red stuff in the folds of his skin, an nhs nurse told me that Urax (sp?) do a 0.25% hydrocortisone cream for inflamed red angry skin which is supposed to be really really good. Apparently 0.25% is the lowest concentration you can get of this steriod cream and the Urax brand is the best one. You can get it over the counter from the chemist, am going to see if i can get hold of one as it sounds quite good but then again it's only the opinion of one person but worth a try i think, esp because of the low concentration of steroids.

Blyton - thanks for the tip.

Update on my ds:

Craddle cap still gone. He gets a few very small, thin white scales now and then but they soon come off. I still apply Epaderm 4 times a day.

Body - still dry, reddish in areas.

Cheeks were never a problem. Now they can get very very red. Some days they are fine others not.

Creases - some days better than others.

Am only using Oliatum & Epaderm (4 times a day everywhere).

I know it's messy but ds doesn't seem to mind when I apply Epaderm at all. I am the one who wishes it wasn't so messy!