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Epipens in schools - petition

39 replies

madge131214 · 21/12/2013 11:29

Dear fellow parent, please sign the petition below to get epipens in schools.

It could save the life of children who have allergies or the life of children who suddenly have an allergic reaction not having had one before.

Please also share the link with as many people as possible!

epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/57117

OP posts:
butterfliesinmytummy · 27/12/2013 14:20

Agree with mrs miggins. I am epipen trained (swimming teacher) and would know if I had a child in my care was likely to need an epipen, where it was and how to use it. I would not be able to diagnose correctly whether another child without a history of allergic reactions was in anaphylactic shock and needed an epipen however. I would not administer non prescribed medication in that case as it could kill in the wrong circumstances and would go through the first aid procedures instead.

In training we also explored the borrowing of epipens. If a child had forgotten their epipen and needed medication, would you use another child's epipen? What happens if that child had an attack later in the day and their epipen was used up? I think that having epipens in schools is a good idea, to administer to children that have a diagnosis of allergic reactions and who have been previously prescribed epipens. To ask school staff to diagnose however is wrong.

MiaowTheCat · 27/12/2013 18:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

msmiggins · 27/12/2013 18:35

MiaowTheCat I agree- also Epipens are prescription drugs. Who is reponsible for making the decision to give a child with no allergy history and injection based on a medical diagnosis by a teacher. It's a huge responsibility for that teacher.

Eragon- you say teachers are being trained to use Epipens- I fully support that. But we are talking about using them on children with a known history of the allergy, pens usually carried with the child ( who by school age will already have experience of the symptoms) or given to the school loaded with the correct dose, and given with support and prescription of a GP who has already made a full diagnosis and investigation of that child's particular problem.

To make them freely available to teachers on undiagnosed random children is irresponsible, may not be in the best interest of the child and far too much unfair responsibility on a medically untrained teacher.

eragon · 28/12/2013 11:16

Msmiggins, you are wrong if you think every allergic child has had memory of what an allergic reaction feels like. For many the first reaction for e.g peanut starts at a very young age, there areyoung teens walking around with peanut allergy with no memory of that last reaction. They are the ones who are at higher risk than the child who has multiple allergies to common foods.
These children often have asthma, which was more of problem during early years but as lungs grow bigger during teen years this becomes less of an issue. But they still have asthma and still have a potentially life threatening allergy. and they dont carry their auto injectors, or possibly inhalers with them.

There are teenagers who have experience of mild reactions when young, and have never seen an immunologist for expert advice, who then go on to have severe reaction during these hormone filled, stressful years.

Teenagers who have been prescribed auto injectors frequently forget to carry them.
Or they are kept in the medical cabinet at home
or are not carried around anymore as they havent needed it for years

or some people dont bother carrying auto injectors 'because they are very careful'
Anaphylaxis is an accident that happens because multiple things that can go wrong do. being careful isnt enough.

For some, its a brand new allergy perhaps they thought last mild one was something else, but today that teen body has decided that today is the day for anaphylaxis.

auto injectors only come in 2 different doses, depending on weight, for severe reactions 1 auto injector is sometimes not enough. so accidently stabbing someone with 1 is not going to cause any harm to someone not with anaphylaxis.

I have personally met school nurses who have bundled off teenagers with anaphylaxis with the hope that they get there alive, as they didnt have auto injectors on them. One had never been informed by parents of the medical condition. For others it was the first ever severe reaction.
We also need to ensure that school nurses, like teachers are always trained to use auto injectors and recognise severe allergy symptoms. As this is not always the case.

I agree that using another childs auto injector is not a safe practice, however using a generic one for the rare occasions you need it is.

I also support the generic inhaler in schools for the asthma deaths, as we are still loosing many to asthma (and possibly undiagnosed anaphylaxis that looks like asthma) in this country.

being a teacher does mean taking on parental responsibility, and that means if you accept a child with medical problems you take on that role.

Its also worth considering that many GP's, are medically trained but wouldnt have the faintest idea how to use a epi pen or auto injector for anaphylaxis. However in today's society, anyone who works with children will more than likely have more training in this area than them.

We live in a crazy allergy world, and its not just my own kids, I have seen the double wardrobe sized cabinet of epi pens in my kids senior school.
We need a generic asthma inhaler and auto injector. We need them in senior schools /university and in large workplace settings as the first wave of allergic kids are now adults and are at risk of anaphylaxis.

msmiggins · 28/12/2013 14:36

You are missing my point eragon-

I do agree with Epipens being kept and used in schools and I do agree with teaching staff being trained to use them- but what I don't agree with is non medical staff making a medical diagnosis.

The points you make:

Teenagers who have been prescribed auto injectors frequently forget to carry them.
Or they are kept in the medical cabinet at home
or some people dont bother carrying auto injectors 'because they are very careful'
Anaphylaxis is an accident that happens because multiple things that can go wrong do. being careful isnt enough.

I don't disagree- but then you also say teachers take on the role of parents- well they do and in homes wher Epipens are used parents do use them- but they take on the role of a GP and don't go making diagnoses for these children and keep Epipens on the off chance.

I totally support the idea of keeping Epipens at school for those children already diagnosed.
Training in the use of an Epipen does not make you an expert in diagnosing anaphyaxis.

eragon · 28/12/2013 18:51

training SHOULD support you in recognising symptoms of anaphylaxis ( agree it may depend on quality of training etc) Otherwise you would not use a prescribed epi for a child who is reacting!!!

Even if you are not a medical expert, you should be able to spot signs of someone who is suffering potentially life threatening symptoms. Its a basic part of first aid.

babybarrister · 29/12/2013 11:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lljkk · 29/12/2013 12:06

This is a lot like the defibrillator argument we had a few yrs ago, isn't it? I guess it's okay & relatively low cost, but so many practical difficulties, sorry! In addition to concerns others have raised:

No one can administer medical treatment (not even a plaster!) without express permission from parents. So you would need all parents to sign a form (annually, I imagine) to say it's okay to use these pens in case it's judged their child needs them; even though they would have no reason to believe their child would ever need it.

It will create a heap of pointless bureaucracy with a lot of parents refusing or needing much explanation. You would need a careful check of the "who's allowed to have this" list before the pen was even administered. Who would keep that list perfectly up-to-date? Would the paramedics be on scene by then, anyway?

it will need maintenance & regular checking on (in case of expiry dates). Safe consistent storage & labelling, too. Keeping pens in-date are currently responsibility of the parents at our school, this would become another job for school.

greenbananas · 29/12/2013 12:50

babybarrister that is an awful story Sad Sad

If epipens were incorporated into standard school first aid kits, I don't see why there would be too much of a problem with bureaucracy.

Parents already sign a form to say that their children can receive emergency first aid. Epipens would surely be included in that definition of emergency first aid. First aid boxes are checked monthly anyway, to make sure nothing is going out of date - this is a routine task done by all schools, childminders etc.

Recognising the signs of anaphylaxis is already covered on the standard paediatric first aid course. Maybe it could be covered in more detail, but the provision is already there and only needs expanding a bit.

The risks of NOT giving an epipen are far higher than the risks of somebody having one administered unnecessarily. The advice we have always been given by medical professionals is, "If in doubt, use the epipen".

There are risks with teachers giving CPR, which they are already allowed to do... for example, it can be difficult to judge how much pressure to use on the child's ribs, how big their lungs are etc. However, if a child has stopped breathing and the ambulance is 10 minutes away, emergency CPR is their only chance of survival.

There is no evidence that children will be put at any extra risk by having epipens available in school. However, if any child does have an anaphylactic reaction in school or at the childminders, and there is no epipen available, they could very easily die.

Yes, there could be a few children leaping around A&E with way too much adrenaline in their little bodies following a mistaken diagnosis by a teacher. But those children will soon recover from their extreme adrenaline-rush... would we rather that other children died because there were no epipens available that could have saved their lives.

lljkk · 29/12/2013 12:52

You would need something like NICE guidance to make it officially accepted.

babybarrister · 29/12/2013 13:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ggirl · 29/12/2013 18:54

wonder if restaurants will have them eventually?

msmiggins · 29/12/2013 18:55

Or workplaces?Or all homes?

ggirl · 29/12/2013 20:30

LINK TO PETITION

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