Please can someone assure me the damage is reversible

[Readytotrythis]

Hi all. First time posting and absolutely terrified. Over the last two years I have been drinking almost everyday, as many as two wine bottles. It’s become significantly worse since last spring 2022, stressful life events etc.

Currently on holiday and I’ve just had some sort of panic attack as I’ve convinced myself my liver is damaged and there’s nothing I can do to help it. If I break the habit will it regenerate? Is it possible to permanently damage it by drinking non stop for two years? I was pregnant before then or breastfeeding and before all of that drank moderately.

Im early 30s, I otherwise eat healthy and drink lots of water. My liver test this spring didn’t show anything abnormal but then I’ve read it wouldn’t show anything anyway?

anyway I have finally told my husband I have a problem and he is going to help me going forward. But need some reassurance I will most likely be okay, otherwise I’ll be a nervous wreck over Christmas. Feel so angry with myself and ashamed.

Speak to your doctor if your worried. I think the liver had remarkable recovery abilities but its not indestructible.

I’m thinking of having a liver scan once I’m back home but very little I can do about it while on holiday :( Just don’t want to be an anxious mess over the holidays as it’s for the kids

A friend was told to stop drinking because of his liver scan results. His doctor said it would take 6 months but that his liver would recover - and it did. He has been sober nearly 4 years and is in good health now and much happier (also came off anti-depressants once he had been sober a few months).

There are support threads on here or loads of other sources of RL and virtual support - www.soberistas.com is one he used though it’s mostly female.

Get it checked out. It depends how damaged the liver is as to whether it can recover; however if it is permanently damaged, up to a point, you can stabilise its condition by total abstinence from alcohol and other damaging substances.

I have a close relative with cirrhosis and it has stabilised since they entirely gave up alcohol. They had symptoms such as ascites (bloating) from which they have now recovered, although there is no chance unfortunately that the damage itself can be reversed. Liver damage is symptomless for a long time so it's important to find out if there is any - hoping you are not at the stage of permanent damage.

it is great that you want to do something positive to protect your health. You need a fibroscan which is a special liver ultrasound that quantifies the amount of scarring - it is more informative than a blood test unless it’s a fibrosis marker (so not standard GP liver function tests). unless you have irreversible scarring ‘cirrhosis’ the damage will be completely reversible and even if it cirrhosis stopping drinking will improve your prognosis substantially.

For support around drinking: alcohol treatment is local authority based and most offer a walk in service - if you google your local authority name and ‘community alcohol service’ you will get the right info. Also check out SMART recovery and AA for recovery support - soberistas is also great but not free after the first month. Some people find alcohol tracking apps helpful like the Drink Less App.

My husband started drinking in 2018 (unknown to me) when I was diagnosed with cancer and recovering. He suddenly seemed to get to where you are now where he was terrified he had done some permanent damage to his body. His broke down in tears and confessed how much he was drinking. I was very shocked as I had no idea and felt stupid at not realizing. I was scared and worried this would become a huge issue to deal with but he want totally cold turkey, threw out all the alcohol and started working out. Happily he doesn't seem to have caused any permanent damage as all the tests came back fine.
In his case the support of his family, confiding in us and talking about how he felt + substituting more healthy stress relievers worked. He now works out almost daily and lost a bunch of weight (especially the beer belly he has aquired).
I know everyone is different and having an addiction is handled differently by each individual.
The main thing is if you stop you can turn your health around and make a big difference, perhaps to full health and recovery.
But that can't happen while you are still using alcohol.
You are clearly self-medicating with alcohol. Have the stressful events/issues improved or do you have healthier ways you could relieve stress?

Thanks everyone that’s very helpful. Although hearing I might have already caused cirrhosis is not what I wanted to hear 😭

like your husband @Mintygoodness im a very functioning alcoholic. I have 3 young children, work full time and doing my masters. No one knows I drink this much except my husband. I drink as a relief at the end of the day as I’m just so exhausted and it’s the only thing to look forward to. Cooking while drinking wine is my happy place. Life is less stressful now than it was when I started drinking the most yes. I have tried yoga and swimming but hasn’t worked. But I need to stop now before it’s too late. It’s causing me so much anxiety and I’m worried people find out soon.

I just really really was hoping to hear a confident YES you definitely haven’t perm damaged the liver. But it is what is is 😢

just really really was hoping to hear a confident YES you definitely haven’t perm damaged the liver. But it is what is is

No one here can tell you that on the basis of the information you've given. Genetics and other lifestyle factors have an influence, it isn't an equation where you can safely drink x amount, but if you drink y amount, you'll cause permanent damage.

My relative was on a constant drip-drip of alcohol over probably about 40 years, punctuated by occasional binge drinking. Drinking first thing in the morning and during the day, say, a litre of strong cider on an average day, but there was no real let-up, and every so often would drink crazy amounts to the point of passing out/involuntary defecation etc.

Compared to that, you have been drinking heavily for a relatively short time, but the only way to be sure is to get tested.

@Readytotrythis you sound overwhelmed and exhausted. Can you talk to your DH about this and change your evening routines or even pay to have someone come just in the evenings to put the kids to bed so you can get some time to yourself? It sounds like you have no other forms of stres relief, are you lonely? Do you have friends? The amount of money you are spending on alcohol you could spend on a sitter a couple of nights a week and go out and do something either with DH or friends. You sound isolated.

My mother’s liver was so bad that she was near death. I don’t remember her meld score but it was bad. She stopped drinking and she got better. Her liver regenerated.

she did eventually die of cancer that was likely linked to a lifetime of alcohol consumption that wasn’t even that heavy compared to many. It would have helped if she had stopped much earlier.

the sooner you get things under control, the better.

@Readytotrythis do you know the former First Lady started the famous Betty Ford Clinic in the USA after she was at home with 4 children while her husband worked long days at the Capitol in Washington D.C. as a politician and turned to alcohol? I am not sure at what stage she went into treatment herself/acknowledged she was an alcoholic but it's clearly not uncommon when women are isolated at home a lot with children and not enough emotional or practical support.

https://www.biography.com/activists/betty-ford-addiction-alcoholism-center

Honestly, the amounts some people drink and over decades, it’s highly unlikely you’ve caused any serious damage over 2 bottles of wine a night over 2 years. You do obviously need to address this and cut down hugely or stop. But I’d be surprised if you’ve done any real damage.

Have you fuck caused cirrhosis. Honestly Mumsnet is very weird about alcohol and who ever is saying that to someone clearly extremely anxious over 2 years of drinking is both nasty and a bit thick.

@Mintygoodness that’s interesting. I would definitely not say that I’m lonely. I have a lot of friends, my social life is if anything too active as I put pressure on keeping in touch and being a good friend.

But my life has been very hard last 3 years. My husband is a great support and now that I’ve admitted the drinking is a problem he will do this with me. I wish he had said something to me sooner, but who knows maybe I wouldn’t have listened

I’m sorry - I didn’t mean to imply I thought you had cirrhosis just the investigation that would help establish the extent of the scarring and that everything up to cirrhosis is reversible. And as someone else said even if it is cirrhosis people can do really really well if they stop drinking.

@notahappybunny7 thank you so much for the alternative view 🤍 I know my drinking is unhealthy and if continued it will cause liver damage.

Im not looking for excuses to not address the issue. I was just hoping for some reassurance so I’m not an anxious mess until I have the scan.

it’s not been two bottles every night, often “just one”, two perhaps over a longer stretch or if on holiday. I have also had days where I go to bed without a sip of alcohol. But it’s definitely become a crutch for me. On the days I haven’t drunk the night before I feel way more energised and happy. Work genuinely much easier too and I look better.

Its been going on for too long and I’m ready to stop before it literally kills me

Thank you that’s helpful. I guess I’m just feeling extremely overwhelmed and taking everything the worst possible way. I knew it would be scary to get responses to this thread and it could add to my anxiety 🤍

Hi OP, it's obviously impossible to say for definite. However I've been in AA for over 16 years and have known a huge number of people who have drunk much, much more than you and for over a significantly longer period of time. They have not all suffered from cirrhosis. I was told, about 16 years ago, that I did have cirrhosis and needed to stop drinking urgently or I could die. Again, my drinking was much more than yours and for much longer. I've maintained sobriety and had no ill effects. I think it's unlikely that you have anything to worry about but appreciate the fear.

@HuntingoftheSnark thank you, that’s reassuring. Well done for becoming sober 🤍 I’m already in bed and really hoping long sleep will help and I feel less anxious about it all tomorrow.

Alcohol interfere with sleep and prevents you getting REM sleep which we should cycle through 3 or 4 times a night. So although it can relax us alcohol at night can really stop you getting a proper 8 hrs of deep sleep which we need. This can increase cortisol and therefore anxiety.

I'm a nurse and I work as an alcohol specialist nurse.
My first bit of advice to you would be to not stop cold Turkey. It can have a wide range of effects and symptoms in the body.
Contact your GP for support regarding bloods and potentially a fibro scan to see if your liver has been damaged at all.
If you have a look on google there is lots of support around the country, there are usually local services called 'inclusion' where you can be put in contact with nurses such as myself who can help you reduce your alcohol intake whilst managing symptoms/effects of excess alcohol etc.
I'd be very cautious driving. Every unit take 1 hour to come out of your system after you've stopped drinking. If you drink 2 bottle of wine approx 18 units. It takes 18 hours to leave your system which means you would be over the limit the next morning driving your children around.
Usually drinking can trigger a safeguarding referral. However this usually means social services visit the home to check the children are okay and see if there is any added support they can provide to help you. There job isn't to remove children but to help with access for support.

Just to be aware completely stopping cold Turkey can put you at risk of seizures. Please contact healthcare professionals before attempting to stop.

The liver can repair itself remarkably - drink tons of water and stay off anything that's hard on the liver. A lot of people believe in milk thistle.

Best get some vitamin and mineral blood tests run

When I came out of chronic alcoholism I was significantly vitamin deficient in B1, B12, iron (ferritin), Vit D, and probably a whole load of others that weren't even looked at, felt like I was dying until they were all corrected.

I get it, I've been drinking slightly less than you (4 bottles a week) but over a much longer time. I think you'll be okay but you need to knock the two bottles a day on the head and maybe get it down to one every other day.

Thanks everyone. I’m not drinking tonight even if it risks withdrawals. I regularly have days without and just feel great the day after. But this has been the health scare I needed, I have had a long talk with my husband and now that I’ve admitted to someone I have an issue I don’t feel like there’s any going back. I simply need to stop.

Im going to try to enjoy the rest of this holiday without worrying too much about my liver. Then I might have a scan next week if I’m brave enough. Thanks everyone for your help and advice