How do you know when an alcoholic has hit rock bottom?

[UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea]

Member of my family is an alcoholic. She's fighting it tooth and nail, doing all the right things, but keeps fucking up, with escalating consequences.

Every time the remorse is massive, she's straight back into her program, everyone gets optimistic again. Then it happens again. And every time our "last chance", "line in the sand" shifts.

I think she's got to hit rock bottom before she actually puts everything into her recovery. But how do you know when that happens?

[rosie1959]

I haven't read all the treads will have a look but if she is in recovery it is quite possible she has only drank 5 times in the last year
I drank around 6 times in my first two years of recovery and it is not unusual some get it first time some don't
Only an alcoholic in recovery can understand this

[bibbitybobbityyhat]

It's all sounds just tragic Unexpected, and of course her loved ones have the great dilemma of whether it is better for her child to be separated from her Mum or live with her and her uncontrolled alcoholic binges.

But alcholics do damage to their kids, even if it is not neglect or putting them in harm's way.

How often is she going to her AA meetings? I would have thought someone with her problems should be going at least 5 days a week.

[UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea]

Bibbity-yes, five or six meetings a week. Sometimes two a day. And meeting up with her sponsor in between. Plus other counselling. It's a full time occupation.

[HowardTJMoon]

If social services aren't told of her relapses then sooner or later they'll quite possibly say that she's now fine and can regain sole care of the child.

Social services needs to know what's really going on so they can make sensible decisions. You don't have to make a big deal of it but write a letter to the social worker. Please. Keeping secrets about something as important as this does nobody any favours.

[rosie1959]

I believe her if she is doing that many meetings she can't be secretly drunk you may be able to fool some people that you are sober but harder with a room full of experienced alcoholics
She is doing the best she can and obviously trying very hard
I hope she will finally accept alcohol is not the answer to any problem however big

[BeautyGoesToBenidorm]

This is going round in circles now. She may be going to constant meetings, but it clearly isn't enough if she's being supervised by family 24/7.

Tell the social worker, OP. With the best will in the world, the family's current tactics aren't doing a scrap of good. You owe this to the child, and I say this as someone who was in a very similar position to your relative. I'm GLAD SS stepped in with me. My family were powerless to help me - I thought I was too clever at hiding my problem to need help, and that smiling and nodding through meetings and presenting as someone who abstained from drinking was enough to throw everyone off the scent.

You have GOT to take this out of her hands. She is NOT in control. Please speak to the social worker.

[UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea]

The babysitting is for when she is in charge of her child. The risk that she will drink while looking after them is too great.

[UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea]

Beauty thank you for your post.

[daisywhoopsie]

Get that poor child away from her. SS need to be told what's really going on and her DH needs to seriously step up.

Success stories are great OP but IMO they are the minority. For most alcoholics 'rock bottom' is when they finally drink themselves to death. I don't say this to upset you and I apologise if you weren't ready to hear that but I wish someone had warned me.

[BertrandRussell]

I would put money on her not going to most of the meetings she says she's going to.

[daisywhoopsie]

Oh wow. I had no idea on actual figures, was just speaking from experience. That really is low.

[BeautyGoesToBenidorm]

daisy is quite right in that death is the only true rock bottom, for many alcoholics. In the majority of cases, liver failure presents no symptoms until it's too late, and the damage is irreversible and at end stage.

Would it be possible to arrange for your relative to have liver function tests? It's a good idea for a heavy drinker anyway (although they aren't a reliable indicator of liver disease), BUT if you can get her to be tested just after a binge, her enzyme levels will be all over the place and the result may well frighten her. Sometimes, tangible evidence of the damage alcohol is causing can have an impact, where other attempts at persuasion have failed.

[exWifebeginsat40]

I went to 5 or 6 meetings a week when I first started trying to get sober. from October to when I finally got it the following April I drank maybe 5 times. those times, however, were spectacular benders. I would go missing, attempt suicide, hurt myself. all this time, I was going to meetings around these binges.

the last withdrawal nearly killed me. like beauty I cold turkeyed. woke up having lost 3 days, puking in my sleep AGAIN. no booze left and I couldn't get downstairs to the shop, I was so ill. I collapsed trying to go and get water and thought I would die. I'm very lucky that I didn't.

and still, I had been going to meetings. I have a dear friend who is currently in a London hospital, likely dying. she just can't find it in herself to stop, despite having lost so much.

it doesn't matter how often a person drinks, or how much. it's the consequences. while you are babysitting, OP, your friend isn't suffering the consequences of her addiction. try al-anon and learn how to detach with love. there is nothing else you, or anyone else can do.

[BeautyGoesToBenidorm]

exWife My last cold turkey stint is one of the most frightening experiences of my life.

[Charlieandlola]

My dad reached rock bottom when he died of liver failure . His last words before he died were " is that a whisky bottle " seeing is oxygen tank next to
Him in ICU .
It's no fun being the child of an alcoholic
Put the child first .

[BeautyGoesToBenidorm]

Charlie, I'm sorry you went through that I've known several people die of cirrhosis and other alcohol related complications, and it's fucking savage, to put it mildly.

[SoHereItIs2016]

The best thing for a child if an active alcoholic is to be away from them. I still have memories of seeing my dad vomiting and so ill from his benders, and that doesn't take account of how scary his change in personality was. I also recall being in the car when he was drunk driving and him having an accident, and the police coming, bring taken to see his Mistress when he was drink, being taken to see his horrible creepy alike friends. I would have been about three at the time- I'm 42 now 😧.
My Mum left my dad and that was the best thing possible for me as whilst it didn't stop dad drinking, I had very limited contact with him after that.
OP you must realise that this situation is not sustainable, it's not even helpful because all the time she is being babysat she STILL isn't taking responsibility for her actions. At some point she will have yo left alone. And that may be the time she scars her child emotionally for life, or God forbid the time she is so negligent that a tragedy occurs.
Please tell SS what is happening and let Them make the important decisions about what happens next.

[ABlokeInEssex]

How about this. As I write, my brother is in hospital. He's an alcoholic.

About 5 years ago or so, he was admitted to the same hospital - including a spell in intensive care - with alcoholic hepatitis and severe liver damage. Before he was discharged, the consultant said that if he didn’t stop drinking and this happened again, he'd be going home in a box. He was simply drinking himself to death.

Once out of the hospital, this is what he did - he crossed the road and went into the pub.

That was 5 years ago. Since then, he's been readmitted with hepatitis, oedema, pancreatitis and cholecystitis. His current stay was prompted by him vomiting blood repeatedly for around 8 hours. Massive internal organ damage of course.

When I last spoke to him he suggested that his symptoms were not caused by alcohol. Just bad diet, apparently.

And of course if he does get out, the first thing he'll do is go to the pub across the road.

[BeautyGoesToBenidorm]

ABloke, if I had a quid for every time I'd heard a story like that! It always follows the same depressing pattern. I'm amazed your brother has lasted a further 5 years, if I'm quite honest.