How do you know when an alcoholic has hit rock bottom?

[UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea]

Member of my family is an alcoholic. She's fighting it tooth and nail, doing all the right things, but keeps fucking up, with escalating consequences.

Every time the remorse is massive, she's straight back into her program, everyone gets optimistic again. Then it happens again. And every time our "last chance", "line in the sand" shifts.

I think she's got to hit rock bottom before she actually puts everything into her recovery. But how do you know when that happens?

[bibbitybobbityyhat]

You could say that drinking a bottle of wine in minutes is hitting rock bottom (even if it's not every day).

You could certainly say that having to be chaperoned while in charge of her own child is already rock bottom.

[UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea]

No - the crises are not external. It can be a completely normal happy day and something inside just snaps.

[gingerbreadmanm]

Report to ss. You can't do anyhing as you say but they can. Has any of the supporr crew discussed what will happen with the child? I think its worth thinking about the dh. Would he leave her or is he likely to stay?

My dmil would be sober months. Then create situations to give herself an excuse to need a drink e.g. fabricate an argument. They are always looking for an excuse and chances are when ss get involved that will be a good one. Honestly you cant save her but you can save that little girl.

My dmil knew she had liver damage. Was detoxed multiple times in hospital. Had all the support of charitys and mental health services. She still carried on until it cost her her life. The shock we got going to hospital in her last detox finding.out she wouldnt make it back home was one of the worst things ive ever had to hear. She never ever told us herself what was happening even though im a million per cent sure she knew.

My dp had some horrible incidents with her as a child stuff no child should ever see. If you can help save someone from that that would be an amazing thing to do.

[UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea]

The likelihood is that I'll tell the DH that I am done with supporting when I think it's enabling, and then I will be frozen out of the situation. So my ability to change or influence the situation will be even smaller.

The DH had a much longer, harder road to travel before he's ready to change.

[RayofFuckingSunshine]

Will that child grow up thinking - I wish people had done more to support my mother to stay in the family?

I haven't read the full thread but just wanted to respond to this. As the daughter of a functioning alcoholic, I wish people had stopped supporting her and started supporting me. I had an awful childhood that I'm still trying to recover from. I no longer have a relationship with my mother because I needed to stop enabling her and being around her was detrimental to my mental health. If people that 'supported' her when I was a child had let SS know what was going on and how much it was effecting me, I'd have at least stood a chance of a normal upbringing.

[BertrandRussell]

"The DH had a much longer, harder road to travel before he's ready to change." That's his choice.

Tell the Social Services. Get that child out of there.

[UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea]

Is there such a thing as "good" enabling (e.g. Babysitting while she goes to an AA meeting or a counselling session?

[bibbitybobbityyhat]

What are the "excalating consequences" you mention in your op?

[UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea]

bibbity I mean the risks she takes to drink, and her actions while drunk are getting worse. So they've gone from being a nuisance at a party (a long time ago before we knew she had a problem) to losing her job, to theft, to being drunk in charge of her child. All interspersed with months and months of being sober.

In the last five years she's probably had 10-15 days where she's drunk. So she's fighting and mostly winning. That's what keeps us hanging on.

[BertrandRussell]

And you haven't told social services that she is relapsing. You must. The child has to be your priority.

[Dapplegrey2]

Add message | Report | Message poster BertrandRussell Thu 09-Jun-16 21:47:18
Lots of people are saying the hitting rock bottom thing is wrong - I'll see if I can find a link.

Bertrand, how can anyone stop an alcoholic from hitting rock bottom? Genuine question.

[BertrandRussell]

Also, those are the 10-15 days you know about. There will have been more.

[UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea]

Badger, no, the constant babysitting is very recent, after the last crisis. Up to Easter she was self controlled, and mostly sober under her own efforts. But I've been told to think of it as a progressive disease.

[gingerbreadmanm]

Enabling is giving 24hour support to ensure that child is looked after properly. Now i understand you feel like you have to just incase but this is the part where you are playing the enabler.

Saying that, 10 -15 days being drnk in five years isnt what i would call an alcoholic, sounds more like someone who doesnt know their limits. But then why the 24hour support all the time? Something doesnt seem right or are they the only times she was in that state?

[UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea]

Ginger, she is absolutely an alcoholic. She physically craves it and drinks until she passes out (if allowed). She'll drink a bottle of wine at 9am. If that's not an alcoholic I don't know what is.

She knows she is an alcoholic and she knows she can't drink. She succeeds in not drinking most of the time.

[bibbitybobbityyhat]

Being drunk and in charge of a very young child is never on, really though, is it? 10-15 days in 5 years seems a lot to me!

I feel for this woman as she is clearly battling and struggling. But if the relapses are becoming more serious and the consequences more alarming, then you can't say she is winning yet.

[Mumandmama]

Sorry, nothing helpful to add OP. But wanted to say you sound really genuine and like you are doing the best you can sounds really tough.

[averythinline]

It sounds like the DH is still in denial- if this has been going on for years why is he still doing a job that takes him away for time- all the people involved are enabling her if she can't be left on her own with her child.

He needs to prioritise the child...change his job or whatever to not have to depend on others to mind her

MIL is an alcoholic but of the dry patch of (was months but as she's got older the dry phase are shorter/binge -hammered by 10am type) so far not rock bottom for her and shes 70+ still can't understand why she doesn't see her gc often (we go if she's in a dry phase -wont go when shes drinking at all) hospital admissions etc no difference

we got advice from al-anon and a friend who is an alcoholic but staying dry 20yrs sober- both said do not take responsibility for her or the consequences - her dh won't so he hardly ever sees his dg either - its all v sad but DS hasn't seen her drunk since he was 3 and passed out in front of him which was my wake up call and said no way -no more

sorry to sound harsh but you really need to let ss know- i would tell the dh you are telling them if you can- secrecy is also a real problem in these situations- whoever will freeze you out is not helping anyone ....

my sympathies its horrible and hard for all involved - but ithe child should come first

[UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea]

Yes, I think she's getting worse, not better. And we are all becoming conditioned to accepting new normals which previously would have seemed completely abnormal.

[tribpot]

So she's fighting and mostly winning.

Unfortunately you're not really qualified to say that - the behaviour you're describing is not one of a person who is actively in recovery but very much in the chaotic throes of active addiction. The fact she (apparently) has days or even weeks of sobriety is not evidence that she is winning. You are trying to apply logic to her behaviour - that's just not how it works.

Benidorm is quite right about cause and effect where the addict's "crises" are concerned - alcoholics can always find an excuse to drink. Bad day at work - good day at work - tired - bored - angry - happy. Absolutely anything will do. If she figures out the people around her will have more sympathy for her relapse if there's a crisis, she will manufacture one. All that matters is the drinking.

What she ought to do when 'something snaps in her head' is call her sponsor. Go to a meeting. Recognise that this is the moment where the fight is happening, not so much the other moments when the need for booze is less strong.

I guarantee she's drinking in secret, btw. How closely is she monitored? Is there any alcohol in the house? You've no idea what the DH may be doing in order to appease her - a limited supply of booze is quite often a bargain the enabler makes.

I should say I am very glad to hear that she is supervised whilst her DH is away. However, this is an untenable situation and you would be doing the child a favour if you told SS. The DH needs to choose - I can't imagine there are many of us who would bugger off abroad leaving this mess at home for other people to manage.

The enabling really is doing her no favours. It's just allowing her to believe there are no consequences to her behaviour, despite the SS involvement and the threat of prison. It's giving her permission to carry on.

Let me be clear: she can recover. But not whilst she's being haphazardly supported in a home environment by well-meaning amateurs. Has she had any stints in rehab?