Do school age adoptions mostly fail?

[carrieboo75]

I have just read on this thread and I have always felt we would like to adopt but would this be against us??? someone say that every person they know that has adopted a school age child has had the placement fail. Does anyone have any success stories?.

We are just looking into adopting an out of birth order child (between our boys ages 3, 4.5, 6.5), so most likely the child will be school age. While I do not expect it to be easy it is hard to think it is more likely to fail than succeed.

Thank you

I'm not qualified or able to give you examples of success though I'm sure others can do so.

But I do know that many authorities require that if you already have children, that you only adopt a child which is a minimum of 2 years younger than your youngest, sometimes they require 5 yrs.

I think you need to contact one of the adoption bodies for some actual statistical evidence on this.

I think it is more common to adopt a child well under your own childrens age, and indeed I think some authorities to stipulate that. But possibly not all. Let's face it if a child needs a family providing they can offer enough love and are financial stable that's much much more important.

My parents used to foster children and one particular family was a group of siblings, B6, B2 and G1 at time of adoption. It was very successful!

I spoke to the council when I was thinking about adoption and they said that it was highly unlikely that we would be able to adopt a child to fit within birth order of our family (wanted to try to adopt a child between child 2 and child 3 ( my coungest)). she said that they prefer the child to be the youngest by a number of years. There was also an issue with the youngest birth child needing to be at least 4. It probably seems a bit selfish but it was a deliberate decision to have our birth children really close together and then voluntarily adopt a child to fit into the family (ie no fertility issues). It wasnt even that we wanted a baby just ideally a child between 3 and 5.

no I don;t think that most school age placements fail but talk to your local council about it, its a legitimate concern.

I also think you will get a hard time from your council persuading them that it s best for all childrne concerned to have an adopted child in the middle of an estimabished sibling group. Its not impossible but you will need to be convincing.

We have 2 birth children, and are on the road to adoption (we hope!). We approached several local authorities around where we lived. All of them were absolutely definite that we would only be able to adopt a child significantly younger than our youngest. So I think that rules your plan out - but I don't know about the school age thing, sorry.

Hi I made the last comment on that thread. As I said on there that's based on very small numbers - the children were all aged 8 or 9 so older than the 5 that perhaps you would be looking it.

I know that my LA are very strict about the youngest child rule.

I read some reserach on this when we were looking into it and yes the statistics are that most adoptions of older children (over 2) do fail - unless the children are adopted by their foster carers.

Saying that we are hoping to buck the trend!

That is part of the reason we started by fostering. We initially did respite foster car and that is how we met and got to know our family - we then decided to try and adopt them and so far so good, but it is still early days (they have been with us permnently for 4 months)

Hope you fnd the right answers for you

Bop

Out of interest why do you want to adopt a child whose age will be in the middle of your children's?

Our youngest is the type of child that likes to play upto the whole baby thing, so I am a bit worried how he would be if we had a younger child. Where as our middle child is so welcoming and is desperate for a sister that, that if we where to adopt a child his age then I am sure he would well and truely take her under his wing. I also think that as we are looking to add a girl to our three boys the differences between girls and boys would have more of an impact than age order. Finnaly we chose to have our children close together so we are now past all the baby stuff and are out and about doing fun things. So it makes more sense for our familly to adopt an older (less placeable) child and allow the younger (more placeable) children to go people that really want a young child. We are army and they will allow you to adopt a child a year younger than your youngest, so if that is what we have to do then at least the age gap will not be too big. I am also waiting for a call back from the council to see if they will consider an out of birth order adoption.
I hope these are valid reasons and we have everyones interests at heart. If not I would be greatfull if someone could pull me up on it (nice and gently!) so I don't mess up my chances of adopting.

Thankyou

The main thing that concerns me is this really:

"we are now past all the baby stuff and are out and about doing fun things"

Older adopted children can turn up with so many problems and issues and behaviours that doing anything fun might be off the radar for a long time. I think SS might just think you're a little unrealistic about the impact an attachment disorder can have on a child and on the rest of the family. If there was an older child available for adoption who had been in long term foster care with one family there might be some hope for it working out smoothly, but in any other situation I think to be realistic you would have to assume that it was very very likely that the child would present with all sorts of problems, and then ask yourself whether you as a family could deal with them.

The reason that most SS stringly recommend an adoption in birth order (ie the same order as if you were having children) is for several reasons:

1 - putting a child into the middle of an established dynamic can casue significant dispution to the existing children. For example adopting a child who has been fostered for a long time as on aldest child may well take great exception to suddenly having an older sibling and being lower down the pecking order.

2 - chldren with attachment problmes often present with violent tendencies - this is a great deal easier to manage when they are by some years the youngest of a sibling group as the older children are easier to manage, give explanations to ask for tolerance etc. How are you going to feel if your "baby" who you are no doubt very bonded to is persecuted (out of your sight) by an older adopted child who you are not yet bonded to?

3 - how are you going to make the time necessary to attach to an adopted child who goes to school when you have a younger sibling still at home with you (and therefore getting the benefit of your time during the day. That could cause great deal of jealousy on the part of a new child.

I would also be wary of saying (or even thinking!) that one of the reasons you want an older child is becasue your youngest "likes to play upto the whole baby thing". I suspect any social worker would see this as a poor reason for an out of age order placement. They will be concerned about what is in the best interests of the adopted child and not in whether an adoption disturns the status quo, becasue it's going to whatever age you adopt.

You also need to remember that its not just a case of persuafding the social worker/panel, after you've been approved you will need to persuade that specific childs social worker that you are the best match which may be an altogether tougher prospect.

I'd be interested to hear twhat your socal worker says. They may be so desparate to place school age children that they will be less fussy than they used to be - the issues remain the same though.

WOuld you consider a child with disabilities? A friend adopted an older (still youngest in her family) child with moderate learning difficulties. Because she had disabilities she had been removed at a very early age and placed with one foster family where she remained (being hard to adopt). This start meant that attachment issues were fairly minimal. She has thrived in her new family and is doing really well. It's been a far easier adoption than an older child without a disability because the attachment problems haven't been too great.

I have just (finnaly) spoken to my army forces help and they would not have a problem with us having a prefference for a girl ("it happens all the time")nor an out of birth order child ("it would depend on the child you were matched with").

Before my children I was a forensic psychologist and did work as a support worker with children from failed/failing placments in adoptions/fostering/care etc. They were 14 or so and had been moved to independent living backed up with support workers. It was something I enjoyed very much as did the child I helped (she had not got on with her other workers, I was the only one that wasn't pulled or left). I am not suggesting I know it all (I know I have a lot to learn still) but my experience means I am under no illusions that this will be easy, they will be what they are and we can only do our best to give them a stable supportive family. We have certainly considered the impact it would have and have disscussed it with our boys. We are an open minded family with a close relationship and through our jobs have seen the awfull things that may children go through. This is not just about how another child would enrich our family but about what we can do to help turn another childs life around. However all this said going into something that would be very likely to fail and make things worse for all concern is in no ones best interests. So I'm trying to find out as much as possible to work out what would be best.

Thanks for your comments it really does help to see it from other peoples eyes. I think I have worded things wrong and need to rethink what I am saying. It is not that we are against a younger child and if this is the route they think will work best then of course we will, we just want to explore the options. Thinking about it our youngest is such a stroppy little monkey that it would prob be best that does not stay the youngest. He was never ment to be the youngest we always planed to have another one, but when we started thinking about adoption we started to consider the out of birth order adoption. The more I think about it the more I think you are all right and we should make the adopted child the youngest. By fun things I mean we are just starting to make the most the the childrens older abilities (camping, Legoland, cycling, off road walking, leaving the pushchair at home etc.)i.e. things that, that age group find fun, sorry if it came accross as flipat it was not meant that way. If the adopted child did not want to do these then of course she would not be pushed to and we would obviously include the things that she likes doing.

By the time a placement happens all of our children will be at school (no.2 this Sep no.3 next Sep) so whatever the age of the adopted child she will have plenty of one to one time with me on her arrival. We have not really considered a child with disabilities as we do not know much about it, I think we will make a decision on this once we have learn't a bit more, although I think it is likely that my husband would not be in favour.

Sorry this is so long, and thanks again for all your help

Preferenec efor a girl is very common and not generally a problme thugh as many people want girls it may add to your time waiting for a match.

As I said it not just about what your SW thinks but what the matching SW thinks and they can be much tougher. Personally I think that having a newly adopted child at home with you whilst the others are all at school is a huge advantage.

Good luck.

just to add that an older child say 5-6 who didn;t want to do these thing would in effect mean that none of you could do them (or at least not together) You couldn't leave them with someone else for a long while and at that age they might have been used to a very differnt idea of what "nice things" to do are! at least a 2-3 yr old would be less set on tyoes of activities and provided you or your DH are strong enough could join in by back-packing.

i'm not really trying to put you off an older child as so many desparately need a good home, but I think it is very hard for a new child to break into an established family dynamic - but being the new "baby" gives them an instant role.

I think I am realizing more and more that having the adopted child as the youngest is prob the best way to go. Our services group only looks for a gap of one year so we could still have the child as the youngest without them being very young.

I would not dream of leaving the adopted child with someone else while we all went off .

No wasn't thinking that you would, with your experience. Was really referring to your comment that you wouldn't make them do something they didn't want to, the reality is if they don't want to no-one can (wihtin reason and hopefully can be changed everntually)

and as it would likely take a few years to be assessed and matched you would have a ew more years to play with (as it were)

Tagged on the end but... you originally asked the question 'do all school age adoptions fail?'. A positive story for you: I have friends who adopted 2 primary school ages girls and a couple of years in it's working brilliantly. Even their social workers can't believe how good it is. They did haven't any kids of their own before, so didn't have to work out sibling relationships, but beyond the normal things you run up against with any kids, the girls have just arrived, and become part of the family.

Carrieboo - I have read your posts thoughtfully & considered how to reply to them. I think that before you proceed any further with your application you should try to arrange a meeting with a therapist who has experience of dealing with children and young people with attachment issues. I do not mean a social worker, I mean a psychotherapist or similar, perhaps someone at the post adoption centre or the keys centre.

I think you should discuss with them the work you did with young people in care, as I suspect that this experience is one of the main motivations for your desire to adopt. You need to know that you will not be able to have a similar relationship with any child that you foster or adopt. An experienced worker could help you unpack this a bit more.

I hope this makes sense. Please feel free to CAT me if you wish

i know lots of fellow adopters who have school age adoptees, without exception they all are difficult to handle, one of the couples are on the verge of relinquishing their little girl, shes 5yrs old.

its good to note that often they have been with their birth families for 2 to 3 years at least, and gone thru sometimes horrific early lives, then 2 to 3 years in care.

all of the adopters have these children as their only children, none are included with birth.

I'd recommend reading Daniel Hughes - Building the Bonds of Attachment about a (fictional, but based on reality) girl called Katie who had a traumatic early life and the resulting impact on her and her behaviour. It is both scary and inspirational but will at least help you to understand some of the difficulties of adopting older children.

We are experiencing some of this first hand and ours do not have severe problems. THey are 8,6 and 4.

Bop

sorry, just realised that i didnt answer your original post. yes, IME most adoptions of older children fail.

it is difficult to find good reliable research on this, as most adoptive families do not stay in touch with their placing agency after the adoption is granted. this is not surprising as most post placement " support" is appalling and does more harm that good to families.

Consequently most agencies have no idea how many placements work out ok, especially after the first few years.

Doesn't adopting a child younger than your own cause problems with displacing the youngest, though? I know my sister found it hard when we had a surprise much younger sister. (Am probably talking out of my behind as no direct experience of adoption, beyond my mother being adopted.)