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Adoption

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on adoption.

Nature or nurture?

52 replies

Hameggnchips · 02/01/2021 21:28

Just read some Daily Mail articles about adoption, wish I hadn't. One about an adoption that completely broke down and the APs split up and gave the child back and another that talks about how adoption has changed over the years and how now most adopted children are all challenging and most have some sort of difficulty later in life - undiagnosed FAS, ADHD, ADD, attachment issues, violence and so on.

Just wondered what people's thoughts are on this subject? Is it true? With enough love and affection can you really turn an adopted child's life around for the better or are they all scarred for life?

Have you thought you could turn a child's life around but then struggled to cope or had any regrets?

OP posts:
notworthitwithoutsausages · 02/01/2021 21:45

Are you a prospective adopter, trying to decide whether to adopt?

Ted27 · 02/01/2021 21:47

@Hameggnchips

Can I ask what your connection to adoption is?

sunshineandskyscrapers · 02/01/2021 21:50

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to answer your question more fully but in the meantime can I advise you stop reading the Daily Mail? It's devisive and appeals to a certain part of the population who want to justify their prejudices for other parts of society. It's how they sell papers and generate advertising revenue.

I saw your earlier thread so I know you are considering adoption. I'm glad you've come here for some balance from those with real life experience of adoption, as you won't get a balanced argument from the Daily Fail.

Hameggnchips · 02/01/2021 21:51

[quote Ted27]@Hameggnchips

Can I ask what your connection to adoption is?[/quote]
Just researching before we proceed with the adoption process. Trying to read as much as possible. We have a birth child and looking to adopt a second child. Want to make sure I'm absolutely prepared for what we may have to deal with as a family (and we fully accept that our future AC may have difficulties and we are absolutely prepared to deal with those). Just wondered what people's thoughts on the article were and how true it is? It seems very negative. I've read some lovely stories too!

OP posts:
Italiangreyhound · 02/01/2021 21:52

It's not nurture or nature, I believe it is often both.

How we bring up our children matters. What we put into them matters. But with issues starting in the womb or even in the genes, some kids have a generic or early life heritage that can be hard for them.

For balance I think it is important to remember why adoption has changed in this country to some degree. And that is because there is now very little to no stigma for single mums (in general) where as at one time stigma, lack of childcare and appropriate employmeant meant young women could sometimes not keep their babies if they were single.

So now very few UK babies are relinquished. Most children who are in the system for adoption have been removed from parents who could not prioritise the child's needs.

There are a small number of truly terrible stories of marital break up and adoption break up.

But that is only part of the story.

My son is an adorable and smart little boy and most people have no idea he is adopted. When I told his teacher (in case it was relevant to teaching topics) he was surprised.

Parenting adopted children is more of a leap of faith but all parenting is, to some degree, a leap of faith.

Are you thinking if adoption for a specific reason Op?

Hameggnchips · 02/01/2021 21:53

@sunshineandskyscrapers

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to answer your question more fully but in the meantime can I advise you stop reading the Daily Mail? It's devisive and appeals to a certain part of the population who want to justify their prejudices for other parts of society. It's how they sell papers and generate advertising revenue.

I saw your earlier thread so I know you are considering adoption. I'm glad you've come here for some balance from those with real life experience of adoption, as you won't get a balanced argument from the Daily Fail.

Totally agree. Don't normally read the Daily Mail just stumbled across it while researching.
OP posts:
scully29 · 02/01/2021 21:53

My thought on the subject is that the daily mail isnt worth reading. Plenty better resources out there and would recommend Adoption UK and the Adoption barometer as a particularly good resource for the reality of adoption today?

Hameggnchips · 02/01/2021 21:54

@scully29

My thought on the subject is that the daily mail isnt worth reading. Plenty better resources out there and would recommend Adoption UK and the Adoption barometer as a particularly good resource for the reality of adoption today?
Yep, have been reading lots there too thank you.
OP posts:
Hameggnchips · 02/01/2021 21:57

@Italiangreyhound

It's not nurture or nature, I believe it is often both.

How we bring up our children matters. What we put into them matters. But with issues starting in the womb or even in the genes, some kids have a generic or early life heritage that can be hard for them.

For balance I think it is important to remember why adoption has changed in this country to some degree. And that is because there is now very little to no stigma for single mums (in general) where as at one time stigma, lack of childcare and appropriate employmeant meant young women could sometimes not keep their babies if they were single.

So now very few UK babies are relinquished. Most children who are in the system for adoption have been removed from parents who could not prioritise the child's needs.

There are a small number of truly terrible stories of marital break up and adoption break up.

But that is only part of the story.

My son is an adorable and smart little boy and most people have no idea he is adopted. When I told his teacher (in case it was relevant to teaching topics) he was surprised.

Parenting adopted children is more of a leap of faith but all parenting is, to some degree, a leap of faith.

Are you thinking if adoption for a specific reason Op?

Struggled with every aspect of conception, pregnancy and birth of our child. Don't want to go through fertility treatment again but would love to add to our family. We have always thought about it and the time is right for us now.
OP posts:
Italiangreyhound · 02/01/2021 22:18

Hope you find the answers you are looking for. Flowers

CeibaTree · 02/01/2021 22:31

I think it’s a bit of both, but many adopted children will have in common issues such as attachment disorders - which can manifest themselves differently in each different child. My goddaughters are both adopted (but biological siblings) and they are now 10 and 11 and have both been diagnosed with additional needs/learning disabilities and the younger one has autism. None of these issues were apparent when they joined their family for the first few years. Also the younger one has been diagnosed with mild FAS and social workers at the time of adoption told my friends that the mother was teetotal for religious reasons which obviously wasn’t the case.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do OP, it’s great you are going into the decision with your eyes wide open.

Ted27 · 02/01/2021 23:45

Well the Daily Mail isn't the most balanced of sources!
I think Italiangreyhound has put it very well.
Scarred for life is a bit dramatic, the idea of turning a child around doesn't sit well with me.
Yes most adopted children have some difficulties, some more than others and yes sometimes it doesn't work out.
Love is important but no amount of love affection can 'fix ' a child. If they have ASD, FASD, ADHD that's what they have.
My son is 16, I could not love him more. He had ASD when he arrived 9 years ago. He still has ASD, he will always have ASD.
What I can do is get him the right support, teach him, provide stability and permanence, the environment in which to flourish. A lot is still down to him.
We have had some very challenging times, I'm sure there will be more. But adoption does not define him, there is so much more to him.
He is a smelly, infuriating teenager with knobs on, I'm a knackered middle aged single working mum so a bit boring and ordinary really, like a lot of adoptive families

UnderTheNameOfSanders · 03/01/2021 10:20

Love is not enough. Nature and lack or early nurture pay a massive part too.

We have equipped my eldest with skills for life. But since she turned 16 she has made a string of choices that have in our opinion not been wise and made her life (and ours) unnecessarily difficult. Some of these spring from her dyspraxia (finally diagnosed aged 15) and others from her past / attachment issues.

My youngest (now y11) has always been quite fragile, and that, and the pandemic and her elder sister, have completely shot her to pieces.

It's hard to know even with hindsight what we should have done differently.

Adoption is a leap of faith. I think you need more faith when you already have a BC.

cherrypie111 · 03/01/2021 11:17

I think the issue is adoption has changed over the years, many babies aren't relinquished as being a single mother or young mother doesn't have the same level of stigma attached, therefore the children in care are there for a reason. And that reason in many cases can lead to children suffering with a range of needs.

My SW said about 60-70% of the children in care are likely to have diagnosed additional needs (in addition to the general trauma of going through adoption)

For me deciding on adoption came down to how much risk I was willing to take. Birth children can be born with additional needs or develop them throughout childhood but the likelihood is a lot lower. With a birth child of your own you need to consider the impact of a child with additional needs on them, and whether that risk is worth it. Might be worth also looking on the therapeutic parenting FB page, there are lots of very honest accounts of people who adopted after having birth children and it's sobering.

Jellycatspyjamas · 03/01/2021 11:41

With enough love and affection can you really turn an adopted child's life around for the better or are they all scarred for life?

It might help you to think that we all carry scars, I don’t know anyone that’s gone through life untouched by trauma, adversity, loss or challenge. For the most part we grow around those scars, adjust and adapt. Some people have circumstances that are so challenging they live with the impact daily and some truly struggle to recover, and some don’t find healing in any meaningful way.

Love, care, stability, education, therapeutic support all play their part in enabling people to reach their potential, adoption is no different in many ways. Where it is different is in the degree and nature of the trauma - being removed from your birth family, no matter how young, represents a significant trauma and finding language to understand things that happened when you were too young to comprehend or even remember properly creates its own challenges. There’s also the issue of the unknown - the very best assessment process can’t know the full story for children pre-adoption, we see what can’t be hidden or what birth parents want us to know but there’s a gap between those two points which may never fully come to light.

The impact on narrative memory, sense of identity and security in yourself cannot be underestimated, the way children’s neurological and physiological development can be impacted by early experiences needs consideration however there’s a lot more understood about this now which can support parents in caring for their children.

So, scarred for life isn’t a term I tend to use because we all carry scars. And I’m not turning my kids life around, because they’re growing in the best way they know how given their circumstances. My job is to support and facilitate that growth so they can live the best lives possible - they may continue to face challenges and some of those challenges may be extreme. My DD has significant developmental delays, most things are very difficult for her, my hope is that as she grows she’ll develop and adapt with lots of support but there’s an uncertainty there.

In coming to adoption it’s worth considering what you’re committing to - which is parenting the child you have to the best of your ability. You’re not saving a child or being their hero - you’re giving them a home and safety and security, come what may. I know the outcomes for my kids continuing to live in care would be far worse than their chances in a warm, loving, secure family home. Most adoptive families I know are just getting on with raising their children - the folk that struggle tend to turn up in the press and on support forums.

I’d also, very cautiously, suggest that sometimes the “scarred for life” narrative is a way for adoptive parents to defend incredibly poor parenting. It’s much easier to say the child couldn’t adapt or was “too damaged” than to look at whether you met the child’s needs. I’m not saying adopted children don’t have their challenges, but sometimes parenting capacity in adopters is lacking too which is why places where folk can seek nonjudgmental support and advice are invaluable.

notworthitwithoutsausages · 03/01/2021 13:33

I think that in terms of nature, if you get a child who has emotionally stable intelligent parents who parent well, they will have a head start.

But the brain is plastic, and for any child a huge amount depends on the day on day and year on year parenting. And that includes both the hands on parenting, and also the parenting decisions.

Yolande7 · 03/01/2021 23:27

futurelearn offers a short course on the effect of maltreatment on children from a psychological, neurological and educational perspective. They take a very optimistic view. You will find a ton of useful information there and it is free.

I don't know a single adoptive family without extra challenges (some mild, some severe). Complex trauma and an often difficult genetic heritage have life long effects. That sounds bleak, but love, stability and therapy can achieve a lot and the adoptive families I know are all happy.

I have two daughters, one of whom has managed to shift her attachment style from avoidant to what I would call secure (she seeks out and can sustain very close relationships). It is not as secure as mine, but it is secure. The other one has recently had a MH diagnosis, but is also doing very well in every aspect of her life. Both my daughters come across as "normal" to friends and in school. They do come with extra challenges and parenting them is taking much more time, effort and research, but it has also brought us very close and they are thriving. To me they are the perfect children and I love being their parent! So from a personal perspective I would say there is tons of hope.

Italiangreyhound · 04/01/2021 03:41

Yolande7 a lovely post. Thanks

notworthitwithoutsausages · 04/01/2021 20:14

@Jellycatspyjamas Some people have circumstances that are so challenging they live with the impact daily and some truly struggle to recover, and some don’t find healing in any meaningful way do you mean that some people don't find healing because the circumstances are too challenging, or because they haven't learned to develop and adapt?

And I’m not turning my kids life around, because they’re growing in the best way they know how given their circumstances. My job is to support and facilitate that growth and my hope is that as she grows she’ll develop and adapt this is the same question, really, do you mean you think we all have an innate ability to either develop and adapt or not, or that the ability to develop and adapt are skills that can be taught?

I am just asking out of interest, by the way, I am not sure I have understood what you were saying.

Jellycatspyjamas · 04/01/2021 20:51

A bit of both I suppose, I think people have an innate tendency towards growth which can be fostered and supported, I’ve seen that in my work over many years. I also think some people face circumstances which completely compromise that capacity and who never find meaningful recovery - again seen over many years of work. What interests me is whatever it is that makes the difference - eg what enables one person to overcome extremes of adversity and what gets in the way of others. Obviously things like poverty, lack of access to support, lack of mental health provision, social support etc combine to keep people in a place but you can take two people in similar circumstances with similar experiences and one will recover and one won’t - not for lack of will or effort or care.

Rainbowshine · 05/01/2021 11:27

I have done some reading around this topic, there are a few academic papers on it when researchers asked a small cohort of adoptees about the reasons why the adoption broke down, I’ll see if I can find the link. In my opinion it’s better to read up using credible sources like that rather than newspapers/random websites as the people who run them are serving their own purposes be it making money or being controversial.

Rainbowshine · 05/01/2021 11:32

Here are two academic sources,

Adoption breakdowns.pdf (ioe.ac.uk)

2._Palacios_et_al_Adoption_breakdown_review.pdf (bris.ac.uk)

notworthitwithoutsausages · 05/01/2021 13:05

That is really helpful, thank you @rainbowshine

@Jellycatspyjamas thank you for your reply. I agree it would be interesting to know more about the differences in how different adults react to the same event. Some adults manage to get the breakthrough after many years of trying, eg with EMDR. Much comes down to the individuals belief system, in relation to whether recovery is possible, possibly.

I think in relation to children I am in fact more sided with thinking that we can turn things around and teach what is needed. With "nature" some children will have a head start but that is all.

Yolande7 · 05/01/2021 18:13

@Italiangreyhound Thank you Smile

@notworthitwithoutsausages In the course I mentioned, the researchers explain brain plasticity and how maltreatment leads to changes in brain structure and function. Children with a history of maltreatment are about 3 times as likely to develop a mental health problem than others. Science has not yet identified the exact factors that contribute to some children's resilience.

www.futurelearn.com/courses/childhood-adversity-and-mental-health

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