This is sick

[DoubleYu]

Name changed as this is outing with previous posts. I think this is sick but I’m sure someone will come along with a cooler mind.

Young woman gives birth to a daughter D3. Young woman came with some issues and has had two children removed by SS.

D1 was adopted in the family.
D2 was adopted by strangers.
D3 is with her with no SS involvement.

Woman has given D3 the same as D2!!!

@Jellycatspyjamas SS assessed new situation and found new DP supportive etc. How can SS be Cool with using the same name? Surely even they must realise that this is not normal!

Just forget about it! You are being ridiculous to be so mad about it all to be honest. So you're now the mum of her second daughter, why does her birth mother need to feature in her life? Just enjoy your child.

SS have absolutely no right to decide whether someone can call a child by and name they choose. It may be unorthodox but it’s not harmful or illegal - what on Earth do you think SS could or would want to do? To try and interfere in a mum naming her child would be a massive overstretch on the part of SS and would fall foul of human rights legislation particularly of SS have no legal remit to be involved with this new baby.

How can SS be Cool with using the same name?

Eh? SS don't vet children's names.

@Jellycatspyjamas SS are failing in their duties to protect D2 and D3.

You just cannot name 2 children the same!

You clearly can, because she’s done it. Your opinion doesn’t equate to law, there is literally nothing a social worker could do in this situation, it falls far outside their duties and powers.

How is either child at risk of significant harm due to sharing the same name?

DoubleYu give up now. You came here because you were spoiling for the opportunity to judge and criticize this woman. You wrongly assumed that people on the adoption board might want to join you in this birth parent bashing. They won't. Perhaps, if you had approached this from a place of kindness and true concern for the children involved. And if you had posted for advice on ways to make sure that whichever child you are connected to doesn't suffer any negative impacts then maybe people would be responding differently. But you just came here to be unkind.

Or perhaps you are the adopting mother of DD2?

From an objective perspective, I would not get judgemental about this..... but if you are feeling personally protective towards DD2, I can understand that you have powerful emotions about.

@DoubleYu

I asked you what you expected this woman to do with the rest of her life. Maybe you think she should sit in a dark room wearing a hair shirt for the rest of her life.
You said yourself that this new partner is a good, sensible person - can you not accept that she has sorted herself out and is living a good life. Is she not allowed to do that?
Her story as you tell it does not sound much different to my son's birth mum. My son has a full sibling living with the birth family and half siblings with each birth parent.

Yes the situation and details have caused my son deep anguish.

But do you know what has helped him come to terms with his story?

Certainly not you ranting on mumsnet. You are the person who needs to get over it. What your daughter needs, at the right time in her life, is proper theraputic life story work. Then she will be able to come to terms with all the facts and issues relating to her life, not just this one detail.

If done properly, without blame, she will be ok, just like my son is ok and getting on with his life just fine.

Her sense of worth will only be effected by her name if you elevate its importance out of all proportion.

It is a really really poor decision, because the children will meet as adults and they will both really resent this.
I'm not sure who could have prevented this. The registrar maybe?

Maybe we should also be wary of making assumptions about what the children will think about it.

It is a really really poor decision, because the children will meet as adults and they will both really resent this.

You don't know that they will meet as adults or how they will feel about it.

OP, I get it. The birth mother is possibly somewhat immature. Likes the name she used for DD2 and wanted to use it again. It's not very sensible etc but clearly this woman was not in a good place and will suffer her whole life for having her children removed. She might be trying to ease her pain with this superficial act, wrong as it is and if DD2 choses to find her when she is an adult she will have to face that. It's not ideal and unkind to DD2. Are you linked to DD2 somehow?

So much assumption and judgement on this thread.

We don’t know why the birth mum gave the same name to both children, we don’t know her personality or levels of maturity - we certainly can’t assume she’s immature. We don’t know how either person will feel about their name (the child who was adopted may consider it a link back to her birth family, for example), we don’t know how any of the children will feel about the adoptions in future or whether the children when have been adopted will see or want a relationship with their birth mum. Much of their response will depend on how their parents help them understand it, the therapeutic work done with the children to understand their life story and the supports around them. It’s not at all unusual for children to be adopted and mum to them be able to sustain parenting another child. Yes, it’s hard for the children who were adopted but it’s far from unusual.

If you want to be legalistic about it, the children who were adopted no longer have any relationship to their birth mother and she has no relationship to them. Legally she has one child, D3, whom she can name whatever she likes. That may feel awkward, or unusual but it’s her right to do so.

I agree with @Jellycatspyjamas.

It feels to me that your issues are more around the fact that BM has satisfied SS that she is capable of parenting D3 with her new partner despite having had D1 and D2 removed from her.

Assuming you are living in the U.K., there are very few restrictions on what you can name your child and there are no specific laws restricting permitted names. A registrar might refuse a name that contains misleading titles, obscenities, numerals or be impossible to pronounce. That being said, Peter Andre and Katie Price we're allowed to call their daughter princess and some non English names might be impossible for an English registrar to pronounce but are allowed. Those arguing the registrar could have intervened are both overlooking the law and assuming that the registrar was aware there was already a half sister alive with the same name.

Can we also take a moment to reflect that D3 has not one but TWO parents who would've been involved in choosing her name.

You don't know that they will meet as adults or how they will feel about it.
My DCs are adopted and even at the ages of 6 and 8 are keen to meet the birth siblings they have not met.
Any adult who found out they had a sibling with the same first name as them would certainly think it was weird. Unless you are in this situation and didn't find it odd?

My DCs are adopted and even at the ages of 6 and 8 are keen to meet the birth siblings they have not met.

That's just 2 people though, and they might not even feel the same way as adults. My post was about the assumption. Not every person who is adopted will feel the same when it comes to meeting siblings as adults.

Any adult who found out they had a sibling with the same first name as them would certainly think it was weird. Unless you are in this situation and didn't find it odd?

I'm not saying it isn't weird, I said you don't know how they will react. Nobody can assume how people will respond. Of course it's weird but that doesn't automatically mean resentment.

I'd like to weigh in here. My DS who I adopted although had a different name to his birth mother's first son (his birth brother) did have his brothers first name as one of his middle names. He reminded birth mother of his birth brother and so she consistently referred to him as that name as his first name. People have commented on how "odd" this is without knowing any of the context as it appears you have I don't see this as sick. Unusual maybe but almost certainly a reflection of deep grief at the loss of her first child

@Hotwaterbottlelove

DoubleYu give up now. You came here because you were spoiling for the opportunity to judge and criticize this woman. You wrongly assumed that people on the adoption board might want to join you in this birth parent bashing. They won't. Perhaps, if you had approached this from a place of kindness and true concern for the children involved. And if you had posted for advice on ways to make sure that whichever child you are connected to doesn't suffer any negative impacts then maybe people would be responding differently. But you just came here to be unkind.

Hear hear!!! 1000 x this!!!

If you are the adoptive parent of one of these girls, I think it would be better to be able to talk about her birth mother in a more neutral way. Given that this woman may have made different choices and is able to parent her third child, it may well be that your daughter at somepoint as an adult could decide to make contact with her. She might need your support in understanding her life and her siblings. The use of the name with her third child could represent lots of things but it could perhaps demonstrate the sense of loss the woman feels at losing her second daughter. I think it is perfectly reasonable not to post about children who have been removed on a public forum. Why would she want to share something so emotionally painful on a facebook page?

Maybe she assumed DD2's name had been changed so wanted to use the name again to keep that connection to her.

She has lost her child, you've gained her child. Have a tiny bit of compassion.

I'm adopted. I have a biological sibling with the same name as me. I couldn't give a fuck. That's like the least painful thing about being adopted

[quote DoubleYu]@Jellycatspyjamas SS are failing in their duties to protect D2 and D3.

You just cannot name 2 children the same![/quote]
Social workers are there to ensure that children are safe in their parents’ care. Social workers are not there to prevent parents from making unusual decisions about how they bring up their children. What this woman chooses to name her child is not a safeguarding issue. Therefore, it really is nothing to do with social workers, or with you.

You absolutely can name 2 children the same name. Rather than look at it as being sick it’s probably BMs way of remembering and incorporating the daughter who was adopted outside of the family into her life. I’m guessing the daughter adopted within the family she still has contact with. It’s not as if they never existed at all.

I’m a birth mum and although I may not always tell everyone about my son or mention it a lot or at all on social media it does not in the slightest mean that I have forgotten about my son or that he never existed- in actual fact quite the opposite- but I have a right to privacy and the outside world does judge birth parents massively