Persistent "lying" and negative attention seeking

[PositivetoNegative]

AD is 4, just started school. She has been with us over 3years. No attachment issues so far, just a bit behind academically.

Always sought out attention but thrived off positive attention. She is very cute and is very sociable and looks for attention by waving at people, giggling sweetly (still even age 4) and generally lapping up any praise. We have always praised her up.

Since starting school this has all gone completely the other way. She likes school, no issues getting her in, loves her teacher, has a close group of small friends. Teacher has gently informed me that she does seek out attention all the time though. This is usually in the form of first aid and bumping her head. She goes to first aid for the smallest thing. That isn't uncommon in itself I know. She is also incredibly happy and smiley and enthusiastic when at school. Always wants to be first to try something.

When she gets home though she is a nightmare. Usual tired kid things but what is concerning me is her total rejection of positive praise right now. She has begun doing the following:

1. saying other children have hurt her.
2. going on and on about a cut on her finger, even when I cuddle her and pay full attention, she carries on? As if I haven't acknowledged it?
3. if I say no to something or she strops, she then seeks out attention by telling her dad I "made her sad". Again, won't stop.
4. says something hurts etc.

She seems to have linked saying she is hurt or unwell with attention she can receive from both school and home. Yet doesn't lie to her teacher about kids hurting her? I'm not sure a 4 year old can lie by the way...for want of a better word.

I've been up the school and there aren't any problems. They are a brilliant school and I believe them.

We have decided that as acknowledging the negatives does nothing to sooth her (and actually only seems to encourage it) we will start distracting with positives instead. This has really worked this week. For example:

"So and so hurt me"
Me: "I'm sorry to hear that, did you tell a teacher?"
"Yes"
"Good. Now what's this I hear about a gold star? That is amazing" etc.

This really worked and we have really gone overboard with praise.

Today I found a certificate in her bag. She didn't mention it. When I praised it up she didn't even look at me. She then went back to "I hurt myself".

I'm hitting my head against a brick wall here. Why is she rejecting positive praise? What am I fucking up here? I've been into school and bloody cried on the teacher who is just astounded because my daughter is so bloody happy!

I knew my daughter would struggle a bit as she has gone from being the centre of our world, my mum having her and also a childminder with only a few kids to a class of 30. She has always sought out attention and admiration but never ever wanted attention for negative things.

I know this is a sign of her needing to be close but I am doing the bloody best I can. We all work, she is at school. She has to go to bed early as she is so young and absolutely shattered. I no longer take her to the childminder as dh can do it now and I think that might have affected her.

I feel like a massive failure right now and I'm uncomfortable that my daughter does seem to actually be lying to get attention? She isn't ignored! When I ask her if she wants a cuddle she sometimes rejects it. Could this be because I no longer am the main care giver because of my working hours? DH does the majority now. But he did spend the year adoption leave with her so it's not an usual thing in our family.

I don't know. Not even sure it's an adoption issue. Sigh.

Sorry, that is one long waffle!

You're meant to acknowledge the hurt or upset and take it seriously because brushing it off or moving onto something else can come across like you're ignoring what they are saying and invalidating their feelings.

God knows. When I gave her a lot of attention/discussion/fuss over her being hurt it actually made her worse. Much much worse. It solved nothing. When I moved to distracting I remember DH and I saying to each other that we must still acknowledge the hurt before moving on as otherwise we would be indeed invalidating her feelings. Impossible to get a balance!

Thanks all for your input, I'm off to bed otherwise I will be too crabby to play with her toys tomorrow!

it's hard to know how to play it sometimes isn't it. My son really pushes back and even lashes out when he's overtired, stressed, ill. It's his way of saying I'm not feeling right. But it's hard when he rejects me and I can't comfort him. But, I'm exactly the same, so I empathize but dont enjoy it. Now I know what my mum went through. I read Sarah ockwell Smith's gentle parenting book and it really helped me. I hope you get more wisdom from others

I feel pretty terrible now, I've been wrapped up in other problems (dh health) and being miserable myself.
Try to go gently on yourself - you all sound overstretched tbh, can you find a way to make some time for yourself so that you’ve got more capacity to support your AD? If you’re both working full time, running a home and one of you has health problems you’re running with a full load to begin with before you add a child into the mix.

It’s very hard and I know when you’re in that place someone suggesting you find time for yourself is as welcome as a cup of cold sick but your daughter is overwhelmed, you sound exhausted and your DH has had health worries, something has got to give somewhere.

💐 because you deserve them.

I agree with everything jellycatspyjamas has said.

My son came to us just before he turned four and school wanted to start him full time at 4, (August baby). We pushed back against it and he started part-time in the January, then full time from March of Foundation (we are in England).

To me it sounds like things have gone reasonably well for the last few years and so it is a surprise to find her struggling now. But I think the early damage to brain development etc means a template is laid down in some children that will mean they do struggle with change and being outside their comfort zone.

I wonder if this is putting her outside her comfort zone and her behavior is trying to tell you this. Even without speech and language difficulties adopted children (maybe all children) use behaviour as language.

@PositivetoNegative Please do not beat yourself up about this or feel bad but I think you will need to re-think how things work. For example why does she like the homework? Does she see it as school work at home? I'd really drop it in favour of more fun stuff, IMHO, even if she appears to enjoy it.

I'm so sorry your dh has been ill. She will be picking up on this and this could be a really clear reason for speaking about pain or being hurt herself.

How have you talked to your dd about her dad's illness, what does she know and what does she understand?

In your shoes I would approach your local authority or adoption agency and ask about 'Theraplay' (a specific kind of play therapy) and investigate Post Adoption Support.

Your adoption fund (if you are in the UK) should pay for this.

Theraplay will not directly address the issues but will help her to make new brain connections and develop her attachment to you (or her dad, or both of you).

My son had it at age 6 and it worked brilliantly. It is not therapy as we adults would know it and it is fun. I can say more if you are interested. I am now about to engage in some different kinds of play therapy, called VIG with my son (who is now 9).

Please be kind to yourself. You sound like you have had a very tough time lately and have a lot of pressure on you, she will be picking up on that and so being kind to yourself is also a way to be kind to her.

She is out of her comfort zone and after reflecting I think it's been a perfect storm really.

Her dad was hospitalised in the summer for a whole week. He had been suffering for months before that. She was extremely concerned. obviously that meant family had to look after her on and off for a week. Again I was honest and told her he was getting better with the doctors. He would video call her every day to reassure her and show her his hospital breakfast because she was worried he wasn't eating with us! She talked about it for weeks after so I know she was deeply affected. She had stopped mentioning it but she saw him taking medication last night so we had the discussion again. I do definitely feel it made a huge impact on her. Then she started school...perfect storm!

Will they support her with theraplay? I was under the impression it was for extreme cases?

This has been so helpful. It's funny how you know it all but it takes strangers to help you put it all together. Feel so so sad today. I might pop into school and just lay it all out and make them aware she is excellent at masking. Not sure what they can do for her but I think a closer eye is needed. Must try not to cry this time!

@PositivetoNegative

Will they support her with theraplay? I was under the impression it was for extreme cases*

There is a really good book called Parenting with theraplay that you could look at in the mean time

Will they support her with theraplay? I was under the impression it was for extreme cases?

If she’s struggling, it should be available. They apply for money from the adoption support fund so it’s not your LA that pays, although they are the gate keepers so how easy it is to get will depend on how useful they are.

To be honest, your DH being hospitalised should get their attention if nothing else does.

Hope your DH is on the mend. 💐

This evening was better. We sat and coloured in together (her choice) and after a while I realised she didn't need me to colour in, she just wanted to sit with me and chat away. My phone was firmly away and we sat in the kitchen while dh cooked dinner. Bath time wasn't a battle because I promised to sit in there with her. Bedtime was easier too. I didn't ask about school and we just talked about random things. DH and I made an effort not to talk about any boring adult stuff, we she likes to battle to make herself heard.

Had a good chat about different things. I wondered made her sad and what made me sad. Seemed to work well today anyway so I feel a bit better now.

Well done op. Seems like you all benefitted from a calmer and quieter approach. Colouring is a really good soothing activity. any rhythmical and repetitive type activity is good for calming the brain and getting it into a 'thinking' state so better for connecting with others and opening up conversation. So bouncing a ball, building blocks, body brushing, brushing a dolls hair, rolling play doh are also good activities.

Good to hear OP! Fingers crossed for tomorrow. (We do tons of colouring in together...)

WELL DONE @PositivetoNegative

You can do it and you are fab! XX

As other say...

"Will they support her with theraplay?" If they offer it and you can access it then they should if you can make the case she needs it (which I think she may) and you can pay from your allowance' as far as I am aware. You will need to ask and explore. Do not down play her behaviour etc. Always talk about it when it is at the worst when trying to get help. EG mention the outbursts, her concerns, any behavior, your dh's medical situation etc.

"I was under the impression it was for extreme cases?" My son is quite run of he mill, not extreme, but it really helped him.

"Feel so so sad today." It's normal to feel sad when our little ones are troubled but try and be kind to yourself too.

" I might pop into school and just lay it all out and make them aware she is excellent at masking. Not sure what they can do for her but I think a closer eye is needed. Must try not to cry this time!"

The local authority may have people who can go into schools and work with teachers, you can explore this through post adoption support. your school has a pupil premium they can spend to help your dd.

It's OK to cry but just make notes before you go in, so that if you do get upset you can still say what you need to say.

Song for you...

Hi Positivetonegative.
I posted recently about my 5 yr old who has recently started reception and showing similar behaviours. I didn’t mention it in my post but ad also rejects praise. In fact I had (another) chat with her about it tonight. Her childminder had told me about something kind ad had done and when I was telling ad how proud I was she was clearly uncomfortable and changing the subject, and then started talking about how a boy had pushed her over today.
She always comes home from school with a story about having hurt herself.
I got some good advice advice about the connection seeking so have look at my post.
They sound similar in a lot of ways.
I have been reading a lot around attachment issues and believe that ad displays traits of an ambivalent attachment. It might be worth having a read.

I work in a school and see a lot of children who are struggling with understanding emotions, self esteem, resilience and general speech and language difficulties do brilliantly at school and then go home and turn in to totally different children. I've had parents bring in photos or show videos of children in complete distress at home because they've been holding it all together at school and we haven't been able to appreciate how bad it is at home. School is a pressure cooker of children fighting for attention, constantly trying to do the right thing and then there's the learning. Even if children love school it is emotionally and cognitively exhausting. From what you've said I would be trying to get your daughter in to a nurture group at school which will really benefit her speech as well as help her with her social and emotional skills.
I do think she has a very long day and it sounds like there are different people picking her up on different days. I'm not criticising, sometimes that's just what our lives are like. But try and make her day more predictable with her own daily visual timetable so she knows who she is seeing and when. It might help reduce her need to constantly look for attention as it's clear who she's seeing and when.

Hi all,
Thanks so much for all the advice and thoughts. Just a little update. AD is much happier. It didn't take much, just more attention on our part. Literally half an hour each with her playing or colouring each night. Me talking about sadness a bit. Us not eating meals together.

She is more her usual self again now! I've decided that next year I will rearrange her childcare and my hours so it is only me or childminder doing school runs. My mum is lovely but it's another person added into the mix so I will simplify the mix! That's about all I can do right now. She hasn't had many "hurts" so it must be working. Thanks again!

Brilliant news.