Adoption or IVF

[houseofrabbits]

I've lurked on the adoption and infertility sections for a few years now but this is my first post.

My DH and I are in our mid twenties and are thinking about starting a family, in-fact because of our situation it is something we have given a lot of thought from early on in our relationship.

I cannot conceive naturally, I would need donor egg IVF. We have actually begun the IVF process already. My DH has some fertility tests soon and then we will be referred to the local fertility unit to be approved for funding (we are eligible for 1 IVF round), then referred onto a clinic and onto the donor egg waiting list. We thought we knew what we wanted, 1-3 rounds of IVF (we have the funds to pay for a few rounds) and then opt for adoption if these rounds fail or for our second child if a round is successful.

However, I have been doing a lot of research about adoption. I've read a significant proportion of posts in this board, looked at posts in the adoption section on fertility friends, read a few books, looked up the process with our LA etc etc. I've read about attachment, funnelling, therapeutic parenting etc. It wasn't until we watched the new series of 'Finding me a family' (we already watched the previous series) that it sort of dawned on me that adoption didn't have to be a Plan B. I felt a huge sense of relief that we don't actually have to go through IVF. I'm not particularly fussed about experiencing pregnancy or childbirth. The only thing is I would love to experience a newborn, however I feel less fussed about this than I was originally.

So that leaves us with adoption. Our plan is to attend an LA information evening early next year and go from there. I am aware there isn't a queue of babies waiting to be adopted, I know it is mainly toddlers, older children, children with SEN and sibling groups. We would be looking for a sibling group of 2 ideally under 5 years old. If this isn't possible then we would consider overseas adoption. I know this is expensive and can be frowned upon somewhat. But if anyone has any recent information about the cost of this and the countries open to us that would be handy.

I don't really know what I'm asking. I suppose I would like positive stories from people who chose adoption over IVF. How did you know it was the right path? How has it turned out for you?

I think my main concerns about adoption are;

• We won't be matched with any children or we won't be accepted in the first place
• Funnelling worries me. I am an only child and my DM cannot wait to be a grandmother. I have discussed funnelling with her but I'm not sure the reality of it will be easy for her to deal with
• I'm not convinced my DH has any clue what the reality will be like. Although he says he understands it won't be the same as parenting a non-traumatised birth child, i'm not sure he quite gets it. I suppose the information evening and various stages to becoming approved would sort this out though.

So if anyone has any reassuring comments about my concerns, that would be helpful too!

Ah I see what you mean yes, I wasn't thinking properly sorry xx

It might mean a longer wait and, of course, there's a lot of uncertainty for all adopted children so you'd need to show you were open to the possibility that things might change for any child placed with you.

On funnelling, one thing to remember is that it's temporary. So your mum would only have to deal with it for a particular period of time.

However, depending on the child you get, there is of course a strong possibility that you'll have to parent 'differently', pretty much forever. How would your mum react to that? Would you be able to lay boundaries with her?

Worth thinking about.

(And I say that as someone with my own DM issues, on which I'm building myself up to a whole other post).

We found the funelling ended and ds now has a great relationship with grandparents.

Ps no idea about After Adoption it is just a charity I have heard of. Try British association of Adoption and Fostering, First for Adoption.

Adoption UK or PACT (Parents and children Together).

I think the feeling of last resort is all very personal. Like the choice to pursue IVF etc or not to.

I know I wanted to adopt from about age 26 but when we encountered fertility issues a decade later I really wanted to try fertility treatment. I had reservations about IVF so we tried IUI and it worked.

Later we did try more treatment when it seemed we would not be able to pursue adoption for ages due to dd's age.

By the time we finally stopped fertility treatment I felt a massive sense of relief!

On of the things about the adoption system is people are usually encouraged to pursue treatment first, if they want to try it.so in a sense the system seems to encourage 'last resort' thinking but I think really it is more about each person, or couple, feeling like this is really what they want. And now ds is here in our family it does not matter one but that he is not biologically my son. I think with time it all just works out but I guess social services need to feel people 're committed to adoption. It's also a really nice feeling when you can voluntarily stop fertility treatment.

Jellycatspyjamas I do understand we need to be open to difficulties arising. Although to be honest this can happen with birth children as well. I am generally a very organised person who likes to micromanage things, so I think starting a family in general is going to challenge that part of me!

Rainatnight and Italiangreyhound it's reassuring to hear that funnelling is only temporary. I thought that in some cases it could be a permanent thing, is this generally not the case?

Whether we adopt or not, I will be choosing to parent our children differently to how I was parented, so no matter how our children come into our family my mum will have to deal with that. I have been very open with her about this and have really emphasised with her that adopted children in particular will require a different style of parenting from that she is used to, and she has been very supportive. She is desperate for me to have children (one way or another) though so whether she truly will be supportive in reality, only time will tell!

Thank you for the other charity recommendations. I have booked an appointment with my GP for other reasons and will also bring up counselling with her.

I can see why SS would want us to pursue fertility treatment first. It would reduce the chance that we would want to try it later on after adoption. However, to be totally honest all you lovely people have reassured me that adoption is the path I would like to go down. Even though you have challenged some of my thoughts, I am glad you have as it has forced me to think about it all more.

Another slight sticking point for us might be some family dynamics. I am almost completely NC with my dad. We talk on the phone a couple of times a year and see each other maybe once a year at most. I am trying to edge him out of my life completely but he is a very difficult person. He's extremely controlling and can be vile and cruel when he doesn't get his way. I am guessing SS would need to speak to family members at some stage....would they need to speak to my dad? And if so, could he jeopardise us being approved by saying something awful/behaving disrespectfully?

"... it's reassuring to hear that funnelling is only temporary. I thought that in some cases it could be a permanent thing, is this generally not the case?"

I really do not know but the hope is that eventually the child will be securely attached and you then will find others can help more without damaging a sense of who mum and dad are!

Here is my experience! So, fairly early on the attachment specialists wanted to see me and dh together without ds!

Cue grandparent babysitting services! They came overnight and on the first day I left ds and our birth dd, then 9, in the garden, playing for about 20 minutes. I had a little line ready, " DS I've forgotten something from the shops. I need to pop out and get it. Will you be ok with sis and grandpa/ma?"

We were about a month in. It was not part of my plan to leave him like this!

So was he OK? He shouted at me (in a happy voice) "Just go!"

I walked round the block and cried! It was like leaving dd at nursery, or taking her to preschool!

Next day he was fine, dd went to school and ds stated with the grandparents for about 2 hours in our house. He was fine.

We still did the main care for ds for years but occasionally others did need to help!

Like my first ever mammogram! I was told not to bring ds. The whole thing happened in a kind of caravan, no room for kids!

So my friend took ds. First time ever a friend looked after him. He was nervous. Then I said, I remember she has those nano bugs? Suddenly, he was all smiles. It helped he had been there with me quite a few times.

Plus she has a younger child. The presence of another child seemed to reassure him.

I guess I tell you this to illustrate you can't always follow a plan. To miss a mammogram felt wrong, not looking after myself, but I could not take ds (and he may have found it scary to be present).

I chose family and friends in the early months who formed our support network with our dd and with ds. Even now I think carefully who will look after ds if it is necessary (he is 7 and has been with us over 3.5 Years).

He has about 3 auntie figutes and 1 uncle figure whose homes he feels at home in! But he knows who is mum. I have been lucky he attached well, I think.

I got a lot of advice from this board before I adopted and in the early days.

It sounds like you are low contact with your dad but want to be no contact? With no contact would you be told if he died etc?

I think social services would want to know all about it but I doubt they would contact him. We nominated relatives to be spoken to, they did not speak to both sets of parents, all siblings.

It may be easier to be no contact but I'd take advice on that.sorry, that sounds tough.

Italiangreyhound that's reassuring about attachment. I suppose it's something we can talk to SS about in more detail and they can let us know if your experience is the norm.

I would like to be no contact with my dad. I assume I would still be told if he died unless I somehow formally declared we were NC....not sure if that's even possible. I'm not too concerned about that. I just don't want him to have anything to do with me, my DH or my children. I'm glad to hear we can nominate family members, that makes things a lot easier :) I would happily explain to SS why I am pretty much NC with my dad though, I have no issues discussing it.

Hiya just wanted to say I would be really keen to hear about your journey.

We have actually just finished our 3rd ivf cycle and know that adoption is the route we want to take - we kind of knew after the second cycle but were lured into trying another one with the nhs.

This feed has been really useful and helped to make me think! X

rabbits I said "We nominated relatives to be spoken to, they did not speak to both sets of parents, all siblings." I cannot guarantee it will be the same for you. things vary between different authorities. However, I feel fairly sure if your dad is how you say and you are no or low contact they would not contact him.

To me this feels quite a significant issue, have you had counselling for it? I'd be tempted to bring this up at some early point and get advice.

I think what social workers want to know is yiu are working through things and have resolved them. So I might ask at this early stage to give you time to get to where you want to be before a social worker is asking about this. But I am not involved in adoption(other than having a childbirth adoption) so someone wiser .at be along to help advise.

Sorry - But I am not involved in adoption(other than having a child by adoption) so someone wiser may be along to help advise

user that's exciting you are beginning your adoption journey. I am sorry to hear your IVF cycles were not successful though. If you want to chat at all feel free to PM me.

Italiangreyhound I really do appreciate all your words of advice and you sharing your experiences with me. If they do want to speak to my dad then so be it, but I will make it abundantly clear to SS that he will have nothing to do with our children other than the odd visit.

To be completely honest, I may need counselling for other reasons but my dad is not one of them. I resolved my feelings towards him a long time ago and he is basically just an inconvenience in my life now. I know it may sound awful to talk about another human being like that, I am generally a warm, forgiving and loving person I promise!

I will bring it up with a counsellor though in case they have some good advice I suppose!

I have different advice from everyone else I’m afraid, I would recommend that you give the IVF a try. You have plenty time to adopt later if that doesn’t work for you.

Even if you get approved to adopt, many workers will be reluctant to place a baby with you in case you change your minds and decide to go ahead with treatment or you conceive naturally.

Both adoption and assisted conception involve stress, anxiety, intrusion, waiting, helplessness, anger and frustration, failure and rejection. I’m sorry, there’s no wait of avoiding these either way.

BTW If you are an organised person you will be driven up the bloody wall by dealing with SS, who are the most disorganised people you will ever meet ( sorry jellycat im sure you are a good un ).Unless you are lucky enough to get one of the very few efficient ones from a good agency. However the odds are very much against it so you will need to develop the ability to suffer fools gladly ( I am still working on it ).

Kr1st1na I appreciate a different viewpoint. It is impossible for us to conceive naturally, so that isn't a concern. I'm not sure exactly how we could reassure SS that we won't pursue fertility treatment if we go ahead with adoption apart from giving them our word? Particularly that the only real benefit of IVF for us is that the baby would be genetically linked to my DH and it would be a newborn when arriving in our home. If we adopt we would be looking to adopt a sibling group of 2 and we don't want anymore than 2 children so it's not like we would pursue treatment for another child.

I'm absolutely aware that SS are so overworked and under staffed that every stage takes ages and they can come across very disorganised. I am a teacher in a state school so to some extent I get it! This is why I want to start the process early (in the next year or so) so that we can deal with delays.

I haven't totally ruled out a round of IVF, but I am struggling to see the point of it!

the only real benefit of IVF for us is that the baby would be genetically linked to my DH and it would be a newborn when arriving in our home

Obviously I can’t know what you consider to be a benefit, that’s a personal decision. But there are HUGE differences between giving birth to a child ( even if not biologically yours ) and adopting a “ baby “ ( in adoption terms a baby is up to 2 years ).

It’s not even about what YOU might feel you have missed out on. It’s what the CHILD has missed out on by not being with your from conception . And also the negative things they have been exposed to because of less than ideal circumstances.

If you give birth to a baby that is genetically yours then ....

You will know that child’s genetic background. You will never know this for an adopted child, you may have a little information about the birth mum but that’s all. It will only be what she has told SW and what they thought relevant to record.

You will be able to breast feed, which has great health gains for your baby as well as you.

Your child will not have been exposed to drugs and alcohol during pregnancy. This is a huge risk to the developing foetus and you wont know the extent of the damage until the child is well into primary school. A lot of soft brain damage is not noticeable or at least diagnosable until they are about seven or eight.

Your child will not have a significant family history of serious mental illness and or learning difficulties ,to the extent that is common in birth families ( yes of course you or your auntie will have had depression but hasn’t everyone ? ) .

Your child will not have been exposed to domestic violence before and after they were born.

They won’t grow up knowing they have several family members in prison or who have committed violent crime.

You won’t have to live with the pain of knowing that someone injured or neglected your child. And that you still need to be positive about that person to your child.

You won’t have to worry about anyone taking photos of them and posting then on social media. Or have to avoid certain areas. Or move house or jobs because of the risk.

You won’t live in fear of unwanted and unauthorised contact through social media as soon as your child is old enough to use it.

Your child will have a much lower risk of learning difficulties or emotional and behavioural problems.

They will not have lost their first mother and then had several carers.

They will not been been deeply traumatised , abused and neglected before they entered the care system. Please do not under estimate the lifelong trauma that is often caused by these things.

Your child will not have been rejected and abandoned by those who should have loved and protected it. They will not spend their whole life knowing they were unwanted or that their mother cared for for drugs, alcohol or her violent BF more that she cared for them. Yes that’s an over simplistic explanation but try arguing that case with a ten year old.

You will not have to spend the first year of your time with your child worrying that they might be taken away.

You won’t have people asking about their real parents . Your child won’t have to deal with intrusive questions about their past.

You won't have to cope with random people telling you that you “did it the easy way” or accusing you of being involved in baby snatching . Or saying things in front of your child that make you want to slap them.

You can go back to work at the end of your maternity leave and put your child in nursery FT, safe in the assumption that they will cope.

That's a random list off the top of my head of the many many ways that adopting a child is different from giving birth to one.

It’s not very cool to talk about it here, because most posters are adoptive parents and they like to focus on , you know, parenting and being a family , just like everyone else.

Because they are a family just like everyone else.

And they adjust very quickly to the differences until someone comes along and hits them like a truck.

But it’s not same. The risk factors are much much higher. The damage from the first few years can be lifelong. Parenting has to be different.

Adoption is very bad thing for children. Every child deserves to be born into a birth family who can love and care for it. There’s not an adopter on these boards who doesn’t wish that their child had experienced that.

Adoption is bad , it’s just less bad than the alternative. Which is children being neglected or abused or growing up in institutions.

So giving birth may have no advantages to you and your partner. But it sure as hell will be an advantage to your child.

Kr1st1na, I can’t address all of your points individually because my post would be a mile long, but none of it comes as a surprise to me. I’m not surprised to read your comment and none of it is things I haven’t come across before. I realise my comment about the benefit of having a birth child may have come across a bit flippant, I apologise if I touched a nerve.

I realise that in an ideal world adoption wouldn’t exist. But sadly it isn’t an ideal world, many people are unable to parent their children, making adoption and fostering necessary. I have really struggled with the idea that for us to become parents, someone else has to be a bad parent.

I don’t understand your comment at the end, it suggests we shouldn’t adopt because it would be more beneficial for our potential birth children to be born instead?

I have really struggled with the idea that for us to become parents, someone else has to be a bad parent

I don’t think it’s as simple as good and bad parents. Some ( only a minority I think ) of parents who lose their child to the system go on to successfully parent a child later, when their lives are very different.

And it’s not cause and effect. The children are there in the system whether you adopt them or not. And if you are seeking to adopt a high demand child ( like healthy NT babies and toddlers ) then there is almost certainly soemone else wanting to adopt them, that you will be competing with.

It’s not demand that feeds the supply. The supply is created by poverty violence, illness, addictions, family breakdown etc .

“ I don’t understand your comment at the end, it suggests we shouldn’t adopt because it would be more beneficial for our potential birth children to be born instead?”

I’m sorry if I was unclear. I don’t mean that at all. I was referring to your comment that

the only real benefit of IVF for us is that the baby would be genetically linked to my DH and it would be a newborn when arriving in our home

While you may not see the benefit of avoiding these years of loss and trauma, your son or daughter will. The harm that has been done to your children in the past can impact on your life in the present, in ways that you cannot imagine. It’s not just a question of “ get them home , forget about the past and everyhthing will be ok “. It I’m sure you know that.

I guess you think I’m trying to put you off adoption and I’m not. I’m just saying it’s not the same ( and I have done both).

Many people say “ oh I don’t really like babies, I’d prefer to adopt a 3yo”. But that’s kind of missing the point. You are not “missing out that messy nappy stage”. You are adopting a child who has been damaged, perhaps permanently, by these previous 3 years 9 months.

You don’t know what has happened to them but they do.

When that child becomes part of your life, you take on all that messiness and trauma from their past. It comes with them. Their past and the damage it has caused becomes part of your family too.

You might not see that when they are tiny. But it’s still there and often comes out in teenage years or in suprising and distressing ways.

Kr1st1na sorry, things aren’t translating well across the internet. I totally realise my ‘good and bad parents’ phrasing was far too simplistic.

I also understand that NT children are in high demand, I think this is where some of my thinking of ‘should we try IVF first so that if it’s successful we won’t be taking a child away from another potential adoptive family’ train to though comes in.

Of course I understand it’s not as simple as bring them home and forget about the past. That may not have come across in my posts.

I appreciate you are just trying to make sure I have a fuller understanding of what adoption entails, I do appreciate that.

Thanks houseofrabbits - I dont know how to PM?

You will never know what’s its like until you have lived it. And then its only your experience with that child and not identical to anyone else’s.

Like the Rest of life I guess.

I’m only addressing your comment ( which is a widespread view among prospective adopters ) that the adopting a child at 2 or 3 years of age is just the same as giving birth to a child except you don’t have the baby stage or the genetic link. So logically , if you personally don’t care about either of these things, , it makes no difference what route you take to parenthood.

Lost of people think this. I’ve heard others say that they don’t want to do IVF because they might not get a child but with adoption it’s guaranteed if you wait long enough. Which isn’t true of course . And it assumes all children are interchangeable.

I just wanted to suggest some issues that you might want to take into consideration when you decide what to do about the IVF. Of course it’s entirely a personal decision for you and your partner and I wish you well whatever you decide. You are clearly a thoughtful and intelligent woman and I’m sure you will make the right choice for you.

Kr1st1na, as always, speaks a lot of sense.

I can remember when we became eligable to adopt, when dd was 5, we thought we were ready to stop pursuing donor egg IVF after one attempt. I can remember someone giving me wise advice about the value of knowing even 50% of the genetics involved in my child's life. Also knowing all about the prehnacy etc. The advice was compelling enough to make me take a second thought and especially after s documentary on donor egg pregnancy we decided to go for a fresh cycle.

This led to a fresh and frozen cycle as I mentioned earlier. After all this failed we did pursue adoption, and don't regret it one bit. Ds is hard work at times but so is our birth daughter and it has worked out well for is.

But I don't regret trying for another biological child (even without the genetic link).

And actually had we gone for adoption 2 years earlier it wouldn't have been ds, so it kind of feels right now!

user I have messaged you.

Kr1ist1na I realise my original comment came across very flippant, I definitely do not think the only difference with adoption and IVF is the genetic link and baby stage....I realise this is what I said though, I’m not really sure what I was thinking when I said it.

I have to admit I did say to my DH a couple of days ago that at least with adoption we are guaranteed a child if approved.

I really so see your point, maybe we should at least try our free donor egg IVF round.

Thank you Italiangreyhound

I think we are going to book an adoption information evening next year and go from there. But still pursue the early IVF stages, so if we decide we aren’t ready for adoption yet then we can pursue an IVF round.