Relinquished baby

[Wobblypark]

I've name changed for this as it might be identifying.

We've been linked to a young baby who is being relinquished for adoption and seems very certain about her decision (has had no contact since birth etc)

Birth father isn't named on birth cert and so has no parental responsibility. BM claims he knows about her plans to have the baby adopted but won't give permission for adoption services to contact him or any of her other family.

SS have got a court date for a judge to confirm that it's ok to go ahead with the adoption without his input.

My question is: can BM really do this? What if he doesn't actually know about the child? It's not an area I've ever given much thought to. Anyone out there with any knowledge/experience?

Rosie what I think is really immaterial here as it is the law that applies.

The words 'birth family' are being used when what seems to be meant is that a child be parented by people who have a genetic link to the child, not the actual birth parents.

I think generally birth family aka birth parents are best. Extended family are great too. I am not arguing that. I am thinking about very specific cases of relinquished babies, which are thankfully very rare in the UK.

I'd like to see the statistics on birth family care verses adoptive care. I think different rights are confused here, child's rights verses birth father rights. Or rights of people who have a man in their family who has had a baby.

You mention you are an adopter and so is another poster, which is why I asked about connection to adoption. My views are not necessarily informed just by my experience of adoption but also my feelings about birth mums being able to make choices on beheld of their children.

I know my views won't be agreed on by all.

I do feel that relinquishing is different from the state stepping on.

But of course we are all entitled to our opinions since no laws will be made based on our comments here (I would imagine!) And I really don't to argue or upset anyone.

Ps I really must emphasize I am not trying to disrespectful of birth family or wider family.

Two friends were relinquished as babies (now adults) i d found her birth mum to be told she did not want to meet her. Another is hoping to meet her birth mum. I know how huge this is for the adult who was adopted.

Plus I am aware that having a chance to meet birth family is very important for people who were relinquished as babies, sometimes.

one found

Italian - when i said we come from different angles, I meant we have polar opposite views.
you say - I find it totally wrong that a mother relinquishing her baby should have to given any information about her family or birth father if he is not in the baby's life.
and i say - I find it totally wrong that a BM relinquishing her baby should be allowed not to give any info about the BF.
In terms of who I am - I am a mother through birth and adoption like you. I am 9 years into the adoption journey and was an adoptive mum before i became a birth mum.

The law is unclear, and like Rosie says there is a huge shift occurring now (maybe this is locational). SW when asking for placement orders are asked the question - have you looked for the BF...because if they haven't and BF petitions the court his petition for access to his child MUST be heard - by law.
If the SW says no we never bothered, then the judge will send them out with a flea in their ear and say then I cannot grant the PO.

If like you say there are extenuating circumstances - DV, rape etc, danger to the BM or child, then of course the judge will accept that, but otherwise the SW must show that all BM and BF have been sought.

In terms of statistics I do not know if they even exist, but it is widely accepted that children do better if they are kept within their Bfamily if at all possible. When children are taken into care SW will always look at the wider family, is there a possibility of kinship care - BP are asked is there anybody you would like to put forward to be assessed? It is only after these options are explored, and exhausted that a child's paperwork can be shown to the courts and a PO asked for. SW must show that all options must have been looked at - and yes it is often a paperwork/tickbox exercise, but if BM or BF say Great Aunt Flo may be suitable, then they must be contacted and assessed if appropriate - the court will ask for the evidence of that.
Obviously for relinquished babies it seems this is much less done - does that make it right? I don't think so - other would disagree.

I do believe adoption is always the last option - as wonderful as my children are - they lost their right to grow up in their birth family, and they feel that loss.

re our situation - BF was repeatedly told the pg was not his, had his doubts and so contacted SS himself once babe arrived (and had disappeared). It took SS some time but the week they were in court to get the PO, his solicitor stopped that happening and a DNA test proved paternity.
SS must now assess BF and any person that BF puts forward. BM has no say in this, she cannot stop this unfolding. If BF is successful baby will move to him, if not then the family hope another member will be. The baby will not be adopted. It will be placed for kinship care if not with BF. BM has no say now. A judge will decide where baby will go.

It is interesting to talk it through - and like you Italian, I don't mean to upset or argue. It is very close to the bone for me at the moment also.

Boston This (adoption) is so much not an easy or ideal situation ever. And I can see it gets people very upset, so I am very wary of debating it with you.

But OK, I am happy to discuss this and happy to learn something from you but only if you are not going to get angry with me for holding different views.

Maybe I have always felt slightly different about birth verses adopted families, long before we actually adopted, three years ago, the idea of adoption had been on my radar, possibly for the last 25 years, maybe it has coloured my view of birth verses adopted families.

My first experience of relinquished children was an orphanage where some kids had parents but did not live with them, it was back in the 80s/90s when people could volunteer in Romanian orphanages.

Anyway, I am trying to explain where my own thinking comes from, I am not trying to convince you of anything.

"I find it totally wrong that a BM relinquishing her baby should be allowed not to give any info about the BF."

To start with in an ideal world a mother would never feel she had to relinquish her baby, so we are already starting from a difficult situation.

I'd hope if a relative of mine were attempting to relinquish a baby they may consider me or other family members, as i do feel children can do very well with relatives, if they are capable of care for the child.

I think I might actually get through the screening process but still end up not necessarily being the best choice for a baby/child.

So there are all kinds of conflicting things here right at the start, about duty, and expectations etc.

The statement you made "I find it totally wrong that a BM...." comes from a situation where, yes, ideally babies would only be conceived where their arrival was welcomed (not necessarily planned but wanted) and all well .

But here we are relying on the birth mum being willing to talk and being able to tell the truth and then telling the truth.

I can think of so many situations where a birth mum may not be able to name the baby's father, so what should be done then?

Or where doing so could put her at risk.

"If the SW says no we never bothered" well I would be very shocked if a social worker said that, but i can imagine a situation where a social worker might say the information from the birth mum was so patchy we cannot identify who he is.

So here is the problem as I see it. You seem to agree that "If like you say there are extenuating circumstances - DV, rape etc, danger to the BM or child, then of course the judge will accept that, but otherwise the SW must show that all BM and BF have been sought."

What is to stop any birth mum who does not want her child going to wider family or birth father or birth father's family from saying just that.

I am not defending anyone lying about the risks but I am saying how would anyone know?

"In terms of statistics I do not know if they even exist, but it is widely accepted that children do better if they are kept within their Bfamily if at all possible."

There are loads of views that have been widely accepted for a long time about who can do what and what is of value. I would rather see evidence.

Of course all things being equal it is true that the best place for kids is with birth parents and this is only challenged when something goes wrong. That's what I mean about this not being an easy or ideal situation ever.

"When children are taken into care SW will always look at the wider family, is there a possibility of kinship care - BP are asked is there anybody you would like to put forward to be assessed?"

The reason they are taken into care is because the parent/s has/have proved themselves not able to care for the child or there is suspicion that they may not be able to do so.

But a relinquishing mum has not been found unable to care for her child or even suspected of it.

You do not need to say because I do understand about confidentiality etc but is the baby in your family already with adoptive parents?
Because my comments up thread were about that scenario, where a baby had been placed, because we were discussing this in relation to the OP and her situation.

I am sorry your relative has had to go through this and it must have been very difficult indeed. I am not anti-men by any means and I know a lot of wonderful fathers, including my own dh.

I am also sorry your child/ren feel the loss of their birth family and hope you will find all the things you need in this matter. Our own son has not been with us anywhere near as long as your adopted child/ren and maybe this is something we will encounter too.

For our son he was not relinquished and was not able to stay with birth family. If it had not been us, it would have been someone else unconnected to him, I know that much.

Again, you do not need to say but do you know why she did not want him to be accessed, could she maybe have been genuinely confused about who father way?

"BM has no say now." Could birth mother not choose to withdraw the choice to relinquish the baby now? I am not sure how long these things are allowed to be left but I know of three adopted babies who were relinquished prior to adoption. One, the birth parent/s never contested, one birth mum changed her mind and one where another situation happened.

In all cases the babies were with adopted families when things happened (if they did) - if you see what I mean.

"It is very close to the bone for me at the moment also." I know and I really do not intend to upset you.

You are making me worried my views are very abnormal! Maybe I should confess neither of my children are very easy to parent but *strangely) the adopted one is actually a lot less hassle (at the moment) than the birth child.

I try to imagine if it matters to me that he is adopted, and it just doesn't. I try to imagine how it feels for him. And all I can go on is what he says and how he displays, of course I do not ask him outright, just want it to be an open possibility to talk about such things.

I think it does matter a little because he never wants to talk about birth family! We try, we don't want him to forget. He came to just at an age where it would be possible for him to have forgotten his life before (on the surface) and we know that to do so would be very bad for him long-term.

Maybe I am just odd, I find my fertility/adoption journey has made me question almost everything about how babies come into families and perhaps I am still trying to work it out!

But for our son I just want to do our best as we are not his last choice or worst choice, we are now his best and only option.

Feel free to PM me if you wish to. I am very aware this is a public forum!

Phew sorry long, sorry OP if this is derailing.

Boston please do PM me if you wish to chat.

Yes sorry OP we have derailed...

But all food for thought....and good, honest, reflective discussion with like-minded folk here is so much more helpful than trying to think it through in real-life.
Thanks

(I am trying to think it all through, I do have sympathy for dads, I also think every child should be really wanted and valued and I wonder if sometimes family may feel a responsibility to take a child as a kind of duty. But I will continue to mull over.)

Wow ... some great discussion and views here which are highlighting exactly what we're worried about.
In our situation, baby is in foster care and SS are seeking guidance from the court before placing with us as potential adopters.
In view of everything we've heard here we'd want to be sure that SS have explored all the avenues they need to before we agree to have the baby placed with us (there has been talk of foster to adopt). They seem to be thinking along the same lines though and have warned us that it could be a drawn out process.
At the moment, we've said we'll wait and see what the judge has to say and then see how we feel after that.
Thanks to everyone for all your input and sorry to have caused a debate!