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Adoption

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Rights of Adoptive grandparents?

36 replies

2catsandadog · 20/10/2016 13:39

My husband and I have adopted a little boy, and its all going brilliantly. He's been with us 14 months and he is nearly 2 and a half.

My problem is with my husbands parents. We have explicitly asked them NOT to do certain things, which they repeatedly do. For example, feed our little boy chocolate, fizzy drinks, sweets, give him lunch when we have asked them NOT to. Give him cake and snacks ALL the time.

We have tried talking to them, and they just continue to ignore us. I am rapidly losing patience and I am very close to cutting off contact.

My Father in law claims that they have a legal right to see our little boy, but do they? Sure, they have a moral right to see him, but that is falling by the wayside every time they ignore our reasonable requests.

Our son is their only grandchild.

Can anyone help?!

OP posts:
2catsandadog · 21/10/2016 18:33

You are absolutely right. I just need to make sure those boundaries have some teeth. Seeing as they have no legal rights to my son, I feel a lot better about making them firm.

Thanks for the replies. Thank God It's Friday. I am off to find the corkscrew.

OP posts:
Kr1stina · 21/10/2016 19:54

I'm not a solicitor but as I understand it they have no automatic legal rights. As a PP said , they could apply to the courts who could order it if it was in the child best interests.

Im still confused as to why you leave your toddler alone with then for hours when you don't trust them. Is your husband using then for childcare while he is at work ? Why woudl you do this if they don't take good care of him ?

They could try to use the fact that they had weekly unsupervised care of him to demonstrate to the court that they had a close relationship. If you think they might really take legal action then it's a very bad idea to keep doing this.

Wine
MypocketsarelikeNarnia · 21/10/2016 20:43

What kristina said. If they see him every week for 3 hrs unsupervised a family court might well order contact. And 'but they fed him fizzy drinks' won't cut much ice there.

WeAllHaveWings · 23/10/2016 17:38

You've tried subtle now its time to draw the line if the chocolate teapot wont do it. Tell them firmly they need to respect your wishes, there will be NO fizzy juice ever as he is too young, when he visits they are allowed to feed him a reasonably healthy lunch with fruit if they want but sweets/cakes are restricted to one small item (small slice cake, funsize milky way).

If they cannot respect your wishes they will not see him unsupervised, and if they continue to try to feed him more than one small treats in your presence you will stop it, which will mean they will confuse and upset ds, which is not in ds's best interests so you will stop visiting with him. If FIL spouts legal rights, just laugh and tell him to stop talking tosh.

Tell them they are special in ds's life and if they want to spoil him to do it with their time and love. Think of ways that don't involve food - e.g buy the big set of Thomas the tank engine books and give/read one each week, take him swimming/to park each week etc

Italiangreyhound · 23/10/2016 20:37

2catsandadog hi, my dear this sounds really awful. for the record not all grandparents do this. I have a birth dd and an adopted ds and my in-laws and my mum (dad died before dd was born) have never undermined me as a parent.

As others have said there are no legal rights for grandparents and even the idea of it is quite abhorrent.

I am not going to comment on what you are doing but i will tell you what I would do in your shoes. (read or ignore as you like, I've not been in your shoes so you may sat my opinion doesn't count).

I would arrange to meet my in-laws alone, either at their house or a neutral spot like the pub or soft play pace. Yes home turf is nice but they might if they do not like what you are saying!

i would arrange for dh to join us later with your son. I might or might not tell them know that hubby and child would not be joining us at the start. Probably not.

I would calmly explain that having taken advice from some adoption experts I had made a few decision. Before you start scratching your head we are the adoption experts! (Most of us have a few years of adoption experience under our belts and I've been reading other peoples good advice here for about half a decade) but if in doubt then read up by some real experts like Sally Donovan and Dan Hughes!

I am not sure if others will agree but my advice is that in order to make sure our children are really firmly attached to us (for you maybe say before he starts school) it is important for main things like feeding to come from mum or dad.

I'd also say the child needed to cut down on sugar. Whether a child wants sugar or not is immaterial. You can say a diabetic sugar addict told you that (me!) Sad.

Any talk of legal rights would be quickly shut down with a smiling, 'You do know that is totally not true, and anyway, we want you to see your grandchild and we want our child to see you. However, and you really need to get dh on side when you say this, we feel you are undermining our parenting when you override our decisions.

I might say, I am sure you would have felt the same way if your own parents or in-laws had done things you did not want done (e.g. feeding ice cream and sweet treats etc against parents' wishes).

I'd probably emphasis here that a little bit of treats is fine but a small child has a very small body, the stomach is the size of the child's fist and so one ice cream might be a tummy full.

I'd also make it clear that if they made things difficult for you then you would start to shorten the visits or cut them back.

Personally, i would not be boxed into set days and times unless it suits you!

They may get upset, comfort them, but remember (and remind them) they are adults. your child has had a hard start to life and he needs all the adults in his life to be on the same page with his care.

I would not be allowing these people to take my son out unsupervised unless I felt confident that they would stick by my/and my husband's rules about suitable child care.

Re "I had to agree to them taking him for a period of time because I was getting daily telephone calls and "just dropping by" events. They live so close to us, and don't see that as intrusive. Despite the fact that it is."

You did not have to, you felt you had to but really you can say no. I feel that you do need to step up to this challenge and get things on a suitable situation for the sake of your son and your own peace of mind.

I mean this very nicely.

If i were getting pest calls from relatives like this, I would not answer the phone. i would let the messages pile up then ring them and explain i was busy. I would open the door to the callers and say 'sorry we are busy or expecting company or whatever.' But before I did that I would meet them, as I suggest and explain:

We are delighted you love your grandson but...

We need our rules to be respected
We need our son to be fed properly and treats to be limited for his own benefit
We need our privacy

Re " They are just not satisfied with that. It always has to be more. And at their convenience."

They can be as unsatisfied as they like, you do not need to give in to them and in fact when you are faced with this type of emotional blackmail I would cut back on visits and visiting time.

Really, what if in years to come they want to have him over to stay, take him to London/Manchester/Scotland/Wales, take him on holiday, take him abroad without you? Will you say yes if they just pester you enough.

This is not just an adoption issue, it would be unacceptable for any parents but it is, IMHO, even more unhelpful for your son who has been through so much and to constantly have his parents undermined like this is really potentially damaging for him.

Before putting this plan into action, I would talk to my dh, ask for his ideas, then tell him this is what I thought was a good idea, ask for input from him, incorporate any genuine;y good ideas and reject all useless ones.

Your husband needs to make the transition to being a husband and father FIRST and a son SECOND. Those of us who are parents, by whatever means, all do it, we all move from the family of our birth to the one we create. He must do this and support you, otherwise it will be good cop (him) and bad cop (you). And you are not bad cop! You are good mum.

Good luck. Thanks

Italiangreyhound · 23/10/2016 20:43

PI just saw Kristina's comment and I agree. If you really feel they will try and get legal time with him you need to make sure all time with him is supervised by you. This sounds harsh (a bit) but I am utterly gobsmacked that they even suggested they have a legal right to see him.

I would now make a note of all the times that they have been unhelpful in their feeling with him and you and just keep a note of it.

I would also cut back contact gradually. They sounds really horrible actually, and not a good influence on him, very busy and with no idea of boundaries, constantly trampling on your boundaries as a family. That is not loving behaviour.

Before things get out of hand just cut back on the contact and make sure you feel peaceful in their company. I would honestly treat them like children, praise the good and go broken record on the bad stuff.

I am very sorry they are doing this it sounds like they are spoiling your time with your son by demanding to see him so much. My inlaws have only our kids as grandchildren and see them for about a day every two months! But they still love them.

Italiangreyhound · 23/10/2016 20:45

Sorry "unhelpful in their dealings with him and you and just keep a note of it."

Re "I would also cut back contact gradually." easier to do if you do not have set days and times.

2catsandadog · 24/10/2016 14:47

Thanks Italiangreyhound. And everyone. It has been very helpful getting your advice. I will suggest the neutral ground chat. Very good advice.

I will let you know how it goes. :-)

OP posts:
Italiangreyhound · 24/10/2016 17:29

Thank you OP.

Please do let us know how it goes. Are you sure you are mentally really for this? Get yourself psyched up and remember they are not the enemy, even if they feel like it.

Thinking about this I want to add a touch of caution. I might be tempted to try a few softer attempts before sitting down with them. This is because it sounds like they are well used to pushing you and their son around ... so do go easy!

By this I mean they sound tricky, they have used tactics that I would not expect my relatives to use in a month of Sundays!

If you go in all guns blazing it will be white noise, they will just hear you want to keep them away from their precious grandson!

IMHO you should carefully prepare what you want to say. Perhaps solicit some thoughts from them about how your son us doing and establish that they want the best for him. Get them to say it so you can use it!

I think if you try and get them on side a bit first it will soften the process. I would also look up some language which is not blaming eg 'He needs to stay away from sugary drinks.' Or 'Only treats at meal times'

Is he due a dental visit any time? Any dentist worth their salt would give that advice! Even a baby with no teeth needs to get into good routines with food/treats before the teeth come along.

I know this may sound sneaky but I think they have been very manipulative in the way they have cajoled you and their son and I would be just as sneaky in my dealings with them.

But when in their company, you can be clear with a no, but in a nice way. It is quite hard to combat kindness/smiles and broken records!

Lastly, if you choose to accompany him on visits or outings with GPS, you can frame it as that, not 'I am not trusting you to have him alone' but rather 'I'm coming too.'

You may be met with 'Don't you trust us?'. Maybe the real answer is No, I bloody Don't. BUT you are not required to say exactly what is on your mind, instead you can choose to answer your own internal unspoken question rather than their spoken one, e.g. 'Don't you trust us?'
'He's been a bit miserable this morning and I will stay with him and check all is OK. Plus it'll be nice for me to have a relaxing morning with you."

If these tactics do not work you could be more hard line, but I do feel that might make enemies of them, and that might be really unhelpful long term.

The sweets are a minor issue for me. The real issue is their inability to take no for an answer and their manipulative attitude. So I think be firm and clear but give them enough time with you and little one to turn this around and avoid confrontation.

I also do think you need to look into assertiveness for you so you can feel at peace with a different approach, I feel if you just confront, you may crumble or they may become entrenched. Try a softer approach at first.

2catsandadog · 24/10/2016 19:39

Ah yes. They are manipulative in the extreme. Again, good advice, and I will be psyching myself up. I will confess that I am so done with their passive aggressive attitudes, that I am all up for aggressive aggressive at this point. But I know that won't work. So I shall turn the tables on them and be sneaky right back.

OP posts:
Italiangreyhound · 24/10/2016 19:54

2cats I am so glad what I said came across, it sounded like I was back tracking, I was not, I was just thinking choose your words carefully. Allow silences rather than saying without thinking.

EG 'You give him too many treats' is true but it is a bit 'blamey', so 'He gets too much sweet stuff makes it more neutral (like where oh where do these fizzy drinks come from!)

I still limit fizzy drinks and my kids are 6 and 12.

The thing I feel we can choose to do is be very clear in our language about our wishes. I am English (despite my name) and I always wrap my thoughts up in soooooo many words (just look at me here!)

For example, I just typed (a couple of hours ago, to you)..

'He's been a bit miserable this morning and I will stay with him and check all is OK."

But the first time I typed that I typed

'He's been a bit miserable this morning and I wanted stay with him and check all is OK."

Wanted suggests you had an idea you may like to do something but are open to persuasion it is not necessary!

So I re-typed it as

'He's been a bit miserable this morning and I want stay with him and check all is OK."

Better, but it still says this is what I want but you may not give me what I want, (with my own son!)

So I landed up with...

'He's been a bit miserable this morning and I will stay with him and check all is OK."

Because when/if you make a choice the GPs need to know it is your choice and they can't simply manipulate you out of it.

This is where I think silences help! If you say it and they are not happy they will talk and the normal response is to start to talk more back, and to try and defend one's position and then to start to question one's own position and then, because we are all so darn nice, we end up saying "Well if you really think....."

Silence will be met with words but those words don't have a lot of power if you are not engaging with them, IMHO.

Now in most situations you do want to engage, to agree, together, what film to see, what to have for dinner, half the time I hate making all the bloomin' food choices in my house! But this is much more important and I hope you will have the strength to loving guide them into a more equal and hopefully better for all relationship with you and your son.

Do keep us posted. And be aware if you dh has had a lifetime of his parents' manipulation he will probably not see it as such. My mum was quite negative, I loved her to bits but she had a 'no' for every 'yes', and it was not until I had been married and living away from home for several years that I saw it. I still loved her, but I recognized her habits and I chose to be positive where I could.

Thanks
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