AD rejected by family member, just need to offload really

[Dandelionandburdock1]

LO has been with us for almost 10 months since she was 9 months old.
My sister, my only sibling came to visit after a couple of months (she lives 40 mins away) bringing gifts and quite sweet with AD, but almost within minutes of arriving told me that her long term boyfriend of 20 years "finds this whole SITUATION (indicates to AD) very difficult which is why I've come alone. She completely took away the joy of her meeting her new Bruce for the first time and somehow made me feel guilty?!

Since then, we've only seen him once at my parents wedding anniversary which he couldn't have missed. Due to seating plan he was sat next to AD, who he barely acknowledged and no mention to me in our brief conversation. Not even a "congratulations how's it going?".

We usually see them at Christmas, this year it was a text from my sister suggesting a meet up half way, walk and "hot chocolate", the first time ever that we haven't had a proper family gathering at Christmas at someone's house with lunch, present giving, walk, tea etc.

She suggested day, time and place. I thought OK maybe this will be more neutral for her BF but no, when we got there she was alone. He'd "gone trouser shopping" for an evening wedding invite of people she'd never met at a venue she didn't know yet and said it was a last minute invitation.

I'm very hurt, been brewing on this all day that a grown man could not want to have contact with an 18 month old baby (who is frankly gorgeous) and not want to see his other half's sister, husband and kids (his only nieces and nephew)

They have no children of their own as "he couldn't love a child that wasn't biologically his" and they've been unable to conceive.

I'm wondering where this leaves us. I want to have it out with her but we're not that type of family and what good would it do?

Very sad for my daughter right now :(

I think you always see the best in people Italian and that is to your credit. :)

In the country I'm talking about, foster care is long term, fine, loving, settled, and seen as a 'good' option. So- they do see it a 'baby stealing' vs a perfectly good option which doesn't steal babies. I'm not talking about Ireland.

That isn't the case here.

I honestly don't know which system has the better mental health for the grown up kids.

But I can see that people in that country may well object to adoption in principle, because to them it's severing ties that cannot be severed.

In fact, we have moved away from that here- we no longer keep adoption secret from the children, we try and allow (indirect, usually) contact with birth family, etc.

So, actually, I think, practically, hopefully, the systems are similar in terms of children getting long-term homes, love, care and protection. The disagreements are over whether, legally, a child leaves one family and becomes part of another.

I believe it's who you love and live with that counts. Others think differently, and that genetic ties are more important. The truth, from what I read, is that actually both matter.

I, obviously, agree with the process for 'adoption' we have in this country, and feel it is the best way to offer a child security and permanence in our society, and within my culture. But I'm a very tolerant person, and I realise that other societies and cultures, and even families here, are different.

Yes, sorry OP.

Whatever your BiL's principles, he's behaving like a child, and hurting an actual child, and he needs to adult-up.

Re I think you always see the best in people Italian and that is to your credit. Thank you, I try. But I am also quite naive, not terribly worldly-wise, so maybe it is easier!

Yes OP, sorry for getting sidetracked.

I knew a child in care in a country that didn't do domestic adoptions. He was a young teenager who had been with the same foster family most of his life, but as well as certain restrictions about sleepovers, who was allowed to drive him etc, his birth parents were allowed to go to court EVERY 6 MONTHS to try to get him back. So he never really has known security and permanence even though superficially it seems he has.
Good luck, op, I hope you find a solution and have the strength to tackle this for your daughter's sake.

(Exactly slkk because foster care is not adoption.)

But many people talk about long term foster care as if it is almost the same. And it is so so different when you look at the details of the child's life.

I really appreciate your comments Jidget and Italian.

Mybloodykitchen, I think it is really important that people feel that they can express their thoughts and feelings openly, within confines of Mumsnet forum requirements, and that goes for you and me and all the other people who contribute. This section is read and contributed to by a wide group of interested parties, who will have a wide range of views and expertise and experience.

Yes which is why I'm expressing the thoughts and feelings which do come from my position of experience.

I've hesitated to post here but here goes. I can see where kitchen is coming from - combined, you have posted elsewhere on mn about adoption and your view appeared to be as a non-adopter with an interest in the area. Your views also appear to be sceptical of adoption, perhaps even opposed to adoption. For example, on a previous thread where the recent case of parents challenging the final adoption order after being aquitted of neglect you made several posts that indicate your position such as the one below.

I haven't rtft yet, sorry, but wanted to say that I hope that they get some really good solicitors, and a fantastic judge, and that if successful a precedent is set. Adoptions can be reversed easily by the adoptive parents and the failure rate is high, and there are too many reports of poorly handled adoptions as per comments by family judges themselves, so there is a problem.

And

I don't know much about adoption in Ireland, but to say that the adoption system in the UK is largely successful is quite simply wrong.

You also said you would definitely return birth family the child in question if you were the adopter - you were unequivocal in this, despite lots of discussion about attachment and trauma. You said you would do this with "no hesitation".

I fully appreciate your right to your opinion, but can you understand that your assertions, coupled with the fact that you never really specify what your interest is in this area can make other posters wary? Perhaps it would be fair to at least make clear your position/ interest when advising people within the adoption triangle particularly when you have alluded to your opinions elsewhere. We have lots of non adopters here - social workers and a family barrister for example, but they tend to make that clear so people can weight the discussion according to their needs. To put it simply, if I want info on my adoption order, I would prioritise posts from the legal posters. If it was about my child's longer term issues, I would be particularly interested in the long term adopters with lots of experience.

I can't speak for kitchen but perhaps the reaction to your mention of intelligent friends being opposed to adoption on principle came from an awareness of your wider opinions on adoption.

The thread you mentioned was about a case where the AO had been granted moments before conclusion of the criminal case. The "no hesitation" was to do with the AO being overturned so that the assessments could be made - not that assessments weren't necessary. I said specifically in that thread that I wasn't anti adoption per se, as well as saying that I thought reform of various aspects was needed.

If you are wary because my perspective is different on the above issues and other issues then I understand that. But we are all adults and I really think that you can and should take comments and advice at face value (and check it out in RL) without expecting a full list of credentials and/or detail of personal experience to back up or qualify or put context to advice. Some people give this and some people don't. I have said what my profession is, and I usually state the limit of my expertise. I try to sensitive and respectful in my posts, although over xmas I was short of time and was a bit abrupt at times. If you think a post is out of line, report it.

It is NYE and I am off to the shops to do some last minute food shopping. Wishing you all a HNY. I am happy to start a new thread about adoption reform/different perspectives of adoption in the NY if you want.

Yet you've not said here what your experience is here even after Family's post, why?

Perhaps for those of us too lazy to AS, you could perhaps include it every now and again.

Dandelion it sounds like you're processing this pretty shitty behaviour from your BIL and coming towards the sad realisation that you can't change what's inside his head - but you can protect all your children and give them as many strong supportive family experiences as possible. I hope all goes well for you.

Combined when you come to start your thread about hypothetical principles and views on adoption, I invite you to locate it in Chat, or indeed anywhere else that isn't the Adoption area of MN - this is first and foremost a support area for people seeking informed, proactive help with real life situations, who may not cherish their needs being sidelined. I presume you wouldn't do this on the SN boards; it would be a kindness not to do it here either.

I agree that this section wouldn't be the best place to start such a thread and you will note that the other thread which Family has taken issue with was not in this section either.

I respectfully ask that we leave it at that because the derailing is totally unfair. And stressful.

Ok combined, agreed. And Happy New Year to you too, hope you got all your food in!

Bollocks to all the discussion on here about his motives and whether people should/could object to adoption (for any reason).

The philosophy of adoption is irrelevant - anyone else can have any opinion they like about anything in my world as long as they don;t foist their view onto me and mine.

This man is a tit.

Don't try to compromise what you feel is right for him - he means little to you. If you want to have a family meet up at christmas/easter/birthdays then arrrange one and invite your sister. If she doesn't come then it will be upsetting for you but you'll get used to it.

I have had y share of people disagreeing with my adoption of DS - entirely their right but I'm not obliged to give them a soapbox at DS's expense.

He is a real person and he's here and I love him. Anyone that has an issue with that can fuck right off.

If you can't say this to your sister now then you are opening the door for anyone to bring any manner of offensive (to you) views to the door of your child which you won;t protect her from.

Time to channel your inner Mama Bear and email your sister if you can;t face up to her explaining that you find her attitude pandering to an adult male at the expense of a small baby upsetting and that whilst you will continue to invite her and you very much hope she will want to be included as part of your family celebrations that you won't be tippy-toeing around his highness's feeling again.

I'm sure you can find a more tactful way to phrase it than that.

Yeah, what Kew said. It is in no way your problem to understand his motivation or make this easier for him. If he can't mind his manners, then he needs to sort his shit out.

As for whether it's legitimate to be opposed to adoption 'on principle': the phrase very much implies it's more than saying 'adoption is not for me' (which is fine), and goes into 'adoption is not right for anyone'. People are entitled to hold this view but it is beyond bad manners to express it to someone in an adoptive family (in most circumstances). People are also entitled to be opposed to homosexuality on principle, or to mixed race marriage, but I'm sure we'd all agree that in social situations those views are best kept private.

some of us are opposed to adoption, mixed race relationships and homosexuality Devora but we manage to behave like grownups and stay shtum.

In case you hadn't noticed OP - I am a lot less patient with pandering to self indulgent nonsense from adults then I used to be when my child is involved!

That's it. Kew's banned from my house 4evva.

Yes he is indeed a tit. But what I've got out of this thread is a realisation that he's messed up and I can't change that. I also don't see how we can move on from this, it feels the end of the road with him so I don't know what that means for me and my sister (my only sibling), not sure I can separate the two and pretend all's OK.

I will absolutely protect my daughter from his negativity and I would never compromise what I feel is right for any of my children.
I needed to vent my hurt and anger and I'm glad I did it here. Thank you to those who have given advice.

Will see what happens with the christening and take it from there. Whatever happens my daughter will never know about this discrimination.

Good luck, Dandelionandburdock.

Well done Dandelionandburdock good news.

Happy New year one and all.