Turned down for Stage 1

[KumquatMay]

As the title really, I'm wondering if anyone has any advice about how to proceed...

DH and I are in enquiries with our 2nd LA (we decided not to meet a SW from the first one due to a number of issues in the short space of time we were speaking with them) and, after attending an info evening had two visits from the same SW in order for them to approve us for S1.

We had two visits as DH and I are (to the best of our knowledge) able to have bio kids but been set on adoption for a number of years. The 2nd meeting was difficult as it was hard for the SW to understand why we would choose to adopt instead of having bio kids but we felt like we reached an understanding in the end. Anyway, this LA have turned us down for S1 as they've said they have concerns about our motivation and also that they think children's SWs will also have concerns about our motivation when it comes to matching.

Anyway, they have offered to share our profile/report with 4 other LAs they work with (one being the one we decided not to proceed with). This could be useful as it will bring the SWs up to speed from the beginning and is all information that will come out anyway, but I'm concerned that other SWs might view it negatively if the reasons the other LA rejected us are evident without even meeting us.

Does anyone have any thoughts or advice on this? Thanks

What are your motivations to adopt?

(Was in a similar situation, I.e. To the best of my knowledge I'm fertile but chose to adopt instead)

There are a lot of children out there waiting to be adopted but most are very vulnerable and need "better than average" parenting. Many come from backgrounds of abuse/ drug or alcohol use which can have significant impact on them as they grow. There are very few young babies and those babies are often there as previous children have been removed and nothing has changed with their birth parents. A lot of these children who I see grow up have difficulties that continue throughout their childhood - good parenting can make a big difference but cannot undo some of the initial harm. Having sat on an adoption panel for many years, adopters motivations are a big factor when making recommendations. People who have been through many years of fertility treatment/ had birth children and years later feel they want to give children in care a home/ single people or same sex couples who are not able to have children naturally and desperately want to be parents are often easier to understand than young couples in whom there is no physical barrier to them having children. If you really are motivated to adopt rather than have birth children then you would have to make steps to prevent becoming pregnant in the first few years (implant etc) as the worry is a birth child could destabilise the placement. You imply there is something in your history that may put social workers off - you need to be completely honest with your social worker - I can imagine it is an extremely difficult process to go through, but the very few occasions where the adopters have gone through stage 1&2 and have not been recommended to proceed have been when worrying information has come out later in the process and the worry has been the the adopters are not able to work with/ be honest with professionals. Most people will have skeletons in their cupboards but as long as it is not a safety/ safeguarding issue with children and you have addressed previous issues then most things can be discussed and are not a barrier per se.
Good luck with whichever path you choose.

MrsBoreanaz Re. motivations to adopt - was going to put them here but didn't want to make the post even longer! I've wanted to adopt for a long time (6+ years), even before I met DH. I worked with kids with additional needs and realised that I wanted to be a mum for kids that needed extra care, love and attention rather than BC We've been discussing it and been set on it for pretty much as long as we've been together. For both of us it seems totally unnatural to have a BC when we could adopt, it really is that simple and that instinctive. We feel about AC the way that the majority of people feel about BC - I just cannot understand why people would choose to have BC when they have the chance to adopt. I don't have that instinct and, in light of adoption, and having BC doesn't make sense to us. To us, and for us, adopting is far more natural and makes far more sense than having BC. I think we'll make great parents (as much as anyone can know before they become a parent - I am aware of that!!), and we want to be great parents to kids who really need great parents.

[disclaimer: I'm not criticising anyone's choice to have BC - I'm purely talking about for us as a couple]

I think that last line kind of speaks to what you're saying, MadauntofA - we've done loads of research into attachment, parenting children from traumatic backgrounds, therapeutic parenting etc. I'm not saying we know it all, but we've got our eyes wide open and no misconceptions about what it will demand of us. And WRT to the adoption panel understanding us, I get what you're saying but this is what's so hard about it for me - I equally struggle to understand why anyone press us to have BC when we are so desperate to adopt. Like I said, it's basically a total reversal of an average situation.

Just to clarify Madaunt, there is absolutely nothing in our history that might concern SWs - we are totally vanilla with loads of experience with kids both professionally and personally. And yes, have been on long-term contraception for a long time.

Thanks for all your input, would be interested in any other thoughts.

KumquatMay I am sorry to hear this for you.

You do not need to answer any questions but I wonder...

What have you done to help you reach the decision not to have biological children (e.g. counselling)?
Are you and you partner on the same page, or is there a chance that the social worker picked up that one or other of you is not as committed to adoption as the other?
What time frame are we talking about in terms of your relationship, e.g. how long have you been together?

This is just to help me see what the social worker might be using to make her/his decision.

But you do not need to answer.....

It sounds like you have thought this through - as you say, total reversal of usual situation and that often takes a bit of persistence until others can accept your point of view. I think "not having that instinct" to have a birth child when you are able and adopt instead just doesn't make sense to a lot of people. It is much easier to understand desperately wanting to have a child and not being able therefore choosing to adopt and transfer that love to a child who needs it?
I can only suggest that you persevere with as many agencies as it takes to prove you really are committed to the idea of adoption. It wasn't that long ago that same sex couples, single people (esp men) were not the norm and would have found it difficult to explain their motivations to adopt!

Thanks for your encouragement Madaunt, I am realising it will require a certain stubborn streak!

Italian, thanks for your questions - I'm happy to answer. DH and I married for 2.5 yrs (living together for the same), engaged for 1yr before that and dating for another before that. So been together 4.5 years in total, but been talking about adoption since we were dating as I made it clear it was on my radar from the beginning. DH is honest about the fact that he wouldn't have thought about adoption had I not been the one to champion it at the beginning, but after thinking about it for a while he began to see it in the same light as I did and with the same commitment. And that's been the case for a number of years.

As for how we've reached the decision -we've not been to counselling but I am an over thinker of the highest order and, as a result, critiqued and second-guessed our decision for a long time and we've discussed it over and over again. There is no probing question I haven't asked myself or DH over the years! As for other people, we've shared it with a few people who know us well and who we trust to speak in to our lives (we decided in advance that these people were the ones whose opinions we would take on board) and most were not surprised at all as we've been talking about it for so long.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts, it certainly helps to talk it through.

Just popping in from the sidelines, but you talk about 'so long' 'and that's been the case for a number of years', etc., but if you've only got a relationship history of 4.5 years and your DH wasn't minded to adoption prior to being with you, it makes it all seem a bit over-excited and hollow to describe it in those terms and, frankly, like you're trying to pull the wool over their eyes. After all, 4.5 years total relationship can't be described as 'a number of years' and there must have been a time when you were together and your now DH was just exploring the concept of adoption.

Thank you KimquatMay I cross posted with you so left my question as you were leaving your comment. So some of what you say in your post before is answering my questions.

I will pm you.

I wonder what age of kids, what age are you wanting to consider? If you are looking for a very young child then you may find that they simply do not have any young children, but it does not really sound like this.

Also, if you have any interest in Christian faith or are simply not anti then please look at www.homeforgood.org.uk/

They are working with churches but also lots of non Christians. So you do not need to be a Christian but obviously if you were very anti you may not like the charity anyway. They are looking for families for hard to place children. They do training etc and you can read more on their website.

All he very best.

I may be way off base here but I thought of it when Italian mentioned your possible interest in being matched with young children, so I'll chip in anyway....

Is there any chance your LA currently has a lot of adopters on their books right now? I say this because your more unusual situation is harder to understand (it can be understood but there is always a question mark when someone opts to take the harder road as opposed to the easier option), so is it that they think children's SWs will be concerned, and when being compared to others you are less likely to be chosen, so they are reluctant to pay for your assessment/ training? It's because you say they are happy to share your info (possibly with LA's with fewer on their books?). If they firmly believed you would not get matched because of this, why would it be of any benefit to share your profile with others? Unless they are saying their decision is based on an opinion and admitting that opinion could be wrong, which I find weird for them to admit. From speaking to others, the more usual practice seems to be X is wrong, come back in X months and we'll reassess.

I say this because I am aware of a couple who didn't get approved to do S1 and were given a list of things they could do to get reassessed (way above and beyond what we, or adopters in my prep group were asked to do). However, they were told by the SW the LA had a large number of adopters on their books and so they were asking more of them because when they're compared by children's social workers, there will be others who will be in a better position, so they are being more picky at the minute because quite frankly, they can be.

Of course if this is the case, then sharing your info could definitely be beneficial, if nearer LA's are not in the same position. And as you said you chose not to go with the other LA, have lots of other potential adopters made the same decision, resulting in an LA with fewer adopters on their books?

Like I say, I'm probably way off base but it's a thought

Thanks everyone, loads to think about!

iwishkidslikedtomatoes - you have hit the nail on the head. The LA have loads of adopters waiting and only a few children, so they can afford to be picky and, given their concerns about our fertility, are being so!

Re. the info sharing, we've decided to approach the LAs independently as we're concerned about them sharing a report (that we've not seen) that led to a 'no' from them.

Thanks everyone

Reason I ask is because I was grilled about motivations.

You've had lots of good advice so I won't add to it (late to the party.... Sorry!)

Lots of luck for the future.

Not so way off base then!

While I too would rather they get a fresh approach from outset than a report I haven't seen, don't you have to tell them if you have been refused by another LA? Could this actually go against you more than the LA saying "we have a question mark but only because we have so many adopters"? You would then almost be being recommended to them from another LA rather than approaching them as someone who has been refused elsewhere, which may be better??? I don't know.

If you have to say you were refused, they'll likely get hold of that report anyway when you have to tell them who refused you.

However, it could just be if panel refuse you, not an LA for starting Stage 1 assessment, I can't remember which it is. Just another thought (sorry, full of thoughts not solutions/advice!)

Think you may be better looking at other route may be long term fostering
considering your past experience in child care, then may be Fostering too Adopt , you will also receive additional training in many areas in the process, could move on too Adoption later if you still feel the same, as you explain in your post have had these feelings since before meeting your DH. , perhaps it is a vocation you wish too fulfil , not strange by no means just unusual in this day and age, such feelings are though are frequent for Genuine people .
Wish you luck.

Thanks fasparent, we've thought about fostering to adopt but so desperately want to be long-term parents and think we would struggle with the uncertainty of fostering/fostering to adopt. Fostering is something we've thought about in the long-term though, once our kids have grown up and left home.

iwishkids, yeah I think it's uncertain whichever way we go. The SW at the refusing LA said to present it from the beginning that this LA have confirmed we meet all the acceptance criteria for S1 but have refused us because they're being picky due to having so many adopters. The next LA will then request the report (which we can see if we request in writing, but I don't think is worth it) after meeting us. I think the advantage of that is that they get to meet us and make their decision based on that plus report, rather than just the report alone.

Then that sounds like a bloody good plan!

Good luck Kumquat Hope you have more luck with the other LAs and I say luck because it does seem you've been unlucky with refusing LA, due to what's happening in adoption right now. Everything is crossed for you!

I have nothing useful to add to this thread having not adopted but wanted to wish you good luck, Kumquat.

I hope those people who say 'just adopt' when people either struggle to have BC or choose not to for whatever reason, read this thread and realise it's not that easy to 'just adopt'.

We started out fostering 40 years ago have adopted 10 children on the way science so can be long term can work Kumquat , needless to say we gave up fostering on the way.

Wow, fasparent! Thanks for sharing, that's really encouraging to hear.

And thanks everyone else for your encouragement and support

I don't know your age but if you are both quite young, social workers might fear that you could change your mind about having birth children. Let's face it, lots of women change their mind in their mid-thirties when their biological clock is ticking loudly.

Also 4.5 years might seem like a long relationship to you but some adopters might have been married for ten years and have suffered infertility. Their motivation is clearer to see than yours.

I am sure they would have also picked up that it was your idea originally and maybe you have 'convinced' your partner it's the right course of action but it is not one he would have chosen.

Having said that, I think your motivations to adopt are just right and you seem very prepared compared to the average potential adopter. It is just that your movitations are probably very rare. In a way, if you were single and didn't want children, it might be easier to understand.

Hi, I don't usually post on here but saw your post and had to! We were in exactly the same position as you, had been together 4 years, married for one, and to the best of our knowledge could have birth children but had come to the decision that we wanted to adopt to make our family. One year later and we have 2 wonderful little boys and are now just waiting to apply for the adoption order! I just wanted to encourage you that it's worked for us, we were lucky that our LA were supportive of our reasoning behind our decision (very similar to you!) And thought it was great that we were so young and that adoption was a first choice for us. I did have to talk through the issue of potentially never having birth children, but providing I acknowledged that my feelings may change and that I know where to find support if they do, they were happy with that. So keep going and good luck!

I would also encourage you to speak to more agencies. We talked to about 10 in total I think! Turned down by quite a few, but in the end had a choice between three who were happy to take us on.

We decided which one to go with by thinking long-term. We figured that this particular LA gave us the best chance to achieve what we were hoping to at the time (Concurrent Planning) and that would be best for the child and us in the long term. We had strong doubts about this LA's processes and knew that the assessment etc. would be more of a struggle with them than with another LA, but we thought in the long term that doesn't matter so much. So I'd say don't be put off by a LA if you don't 'like' them very much, as long as you have the feeling that they may have the right children for you.

I would also say that you sound like an ideal candidate for a VA.

One SW said to us that just a couple of years ago (so 3-4 years ago from now), no agency would have taken us on. Because we already had a child, and had no reason to believe we couldn't have another by birth. SWs would have felt, she said, that childless couples who didn't have any other options were more 'deserving'. I was quite shocked as I had thought that adoption was about finding families for children, rather than finding children for families.
But as it was, we clearly applied at a fortunate time.
Things have changed again since then, and drastically so. I think many SWs may currently be back to that mindset, where they can afford to be picky and will consciously or unconsciously apply some measure of 'deserving'. If that is the case, I fear you may find yourself having to wait this phase out - I am sure it can't last forever.

One question for you to think about/mull over: You wrote
'realised that I wanted to be a mum for kids that needed extra care, love and attention'. Now how would you feel if you ended up being shown profiles of babies with no (known or suspected) extra needs? Or if you go ahead with a match with a child who is described as having all those extra needs but then after placement it turns out that the child is actually fine?
One SW asked us similarly, when we were saying we wanted to consider concurrent planning, 'why do you feel you need to do 'more' than other adopters?' And my honest answer was that yes, on the one hand I thought CP would be worth it in the long term for our child and us, but also, as we did have other options (could have tried for another BC), I felt I needed to make an extra effort. And now that we have our AC who is a healthy baby and came to us without having the uncertainties of CP, I sometimes feel a pang of guilt towards those of my friends who are still waiting for a match. Like our choice to adopt deprived them of a potential baby, whereas it was a choice for us but for them it's not.
I'm just putting this out there for you to mull over, and as it might be something that comes up in assessment, I'm sure it will help if you have explored your feelings on this already :)

Thanks for the additional input Funnytobe, bunting1000 and 64x32x24.

bunting1000 - thanks for the encouragement, makes me want to keep going until we find someone who really believes in us!

64x32x24 - interesting that you had a similar experience, you also mention CP which we are discussing at the moment. I might drop you a PM if that's ok?