Disciplining adopted DC

[crackerjack00]

quick one for you.

DS - 7 years old. Placed for approaching a year.

Habit of telling fantastical tales, not taking responsibility for actions, deflecting blame, and latching on to mitigating circumstances, ie if DH and I say 'I know it's difficult for you because of x, y and z, next time he's in trouble, he'll say I did it because of x, y and z). Latest 'x y and z' is the multiple moves he's had.

A while ago, teacher reports he's been pushing and shoving at school to the extent 3 children had complained. 2 days later, he admits he shoved someone again. He gets very upset when talking to him about it, but crucially not upset for his actions he's upset that he's in trouble, says anything to deflect blame (so and so was doing it too. I didn't know you shouldn't (despite conversations taking place 48 hrs earlier between us where he's told he shouldn't), and the latest excuse, it's because he's had so many homes.

Got to the point where teacher was coming to talk to us 2-3 evenings a week to report further misbehaviour. So last Friday, after the latest, we said if teacher 'had a word' once this week, he'd miss out on a party he's been looking forward to.

Tonight, the dreaded 'can I have a word?' He's drawn on a fellow classmates t-shirt all over in pen. Which would be fine but 2 weeks ago he drew on a onesie. We spoke about it at the time in an attempt to understand why. He wanted a police badge on his onesie. We said that a better thing to do would have been to put one on paper, cut it out, stick it, blah blah. We also reinforced that clothes were not to be drawn on (nor skin, just paper).

His excuse to the teacher? I didn't know I shouldn't do it because I've lived in so many houses. (DH and I have recently shown empathy with his multiple moves). He got incredibly upset for 5 mins at the thought of missing his party. Now, he doesn't appear to give a toss.

I admit I'm getting frustrated and am running out of ideas how to discipline him (and offer empathy of any description when it immediately gets used as an excuse... (He really 'has form for this))

How would you handle this/what ways of discipline would you use? (please no one say time in. It's all any of the experts suggest and it does fuck all)

Sorry... I thought that would be shorter!!!

Projection? Not much
Your experience is just that. It is not the experience of my child or any other child here

You clearly have a lot of issues domino. But this thread is not the place to raise them .

You have attacked people you do not know for things they have not said . You know nothing about the posters here and the traumas and losses they have experienced . You know nothing of the horrendous things that have happened to us or our children

Your point seems to be

" well I had a crap childhood so no one can disagree with me ever, or it proves that all women are bad "

For someone who says they can't cope with rejection or confrontation , you are very good at attacking others .

If you really want to discuss the issues from your childhood , there are many threads on Mumsnet where you can do that. But this isn't one of them

This is about the Cracker jacks son

Okay my twopennorth, as gained from a friend who is a paediatric nurse (deals with behaviour issues in lots of very fragile children).
Basically look for little signs of being good and celebrate them. Set yourself a target of spotting ten each day, and they can be simple like: remembering to say please, or putting toys away without much fuss.

I would also expect school to deal with things in school. If you get spoken to again, I would set up a meeting and ask them about how they are dealing with behaviour and whether they need outside help and support? Give them advice, but don't take on the responsibility.

I'm sorry you are still in so much pain from your treatment during childhood still Domino but you are reading things that people just haven't written. You make assumptions that just aren't true - that none of us were adopted ourselves, that we have all adopted older children, that if we have adopted younger children that they don't suffer from attachment and/or separation issues.

Whilst its true that being an adoptive parent per se doesn't make you a good parent and indeed I have personal experience of some pretty shocking parenting by adoptive parents, one of whom is currently serving a prison sentence for it, in my experience adoptive parents never pat themselves on their backs and indeed spend much of their time worrying about whether they are doing the right thing or making things worse.

I don't think anyone actually disagreed with you about your specific points, you might be shocked to hear that most of us probably do them without even thinking. It was more when it comes to discipline whether or not a child is adopted really doesn't matter that most of us have an issue with. There are standard behaviour management techniques which really aren't appropriate for many/most children who were adopted - time out is often a disaster and yet the "go to" behaviour management for schools.

One day our children will be you and maybe they will be on a forum angrily berating us for not doing well enough and that the reason they are so angry is down to us and our inadequate parenting.

But I do hope you're wrong because DS is lovely and deserves better, as in fact did you.

Domino I am sorry you had such a horrible childhood. No one every deserves that and I hope you can find some peace. I had quite a good childhood but ended up with an eating disorder and low self esteem. I have found counselling to be very helpful.

crackerjack00 I am mum to a birth dd who is 10 and a little boy aged 4 who joined us by adoption a year ago.

My dd is quite a handful (dyslexic, might be on the autistic spectrum) and my little boy is generally very easy to parent. I have done a LOT of parenting courses (I think about 8). Because I like them, and I like getting help and I really needed it with dd. I will read through your comments and see if I can suggest anything from what I have studied. BUT please be reassured I am not in any way a particularly great parent! I shout way too much, give in a fair bit and generally I would always like to do better! But I am happy to share.

I wanted to join in here as I was adopted age six. My parents died on the same day (murder/suicide) and we (sister aged 2) were placed into care for a couple of weeks then split up and placed with extended family.

The thing I remember most is, apart from fear and bewilderment, feeling very insecure. Acting out and misbehaving could be a way of testing how much you care, if you will send him away. Things are very different now but there was no support or counselling when I was a child. Support in school could really help as would reinforcing to him that he is with you for good.

Would a worry box help? If he's scared or worried he can write it down and put it in the box, then if he wants, you can talk about it.

I think this child has had so much rejection that inside he's terrified. I'm sorry I can't help with suggestions but I'm seeing it from his pov. I remembered my parents and suddenly they were gone, my sister was gone and I felt so scared.

The big visual aid for me is the image we learnt about in our adoption training of the fountain.

The jets of the water are the behaviour, these gets come from the stem of the fountain, which are the feelings of the child, but ultimately the water comes from the base - this is the needs of the child.

In your son's case these MIGHT be that he needs love, permanency, to feel part of the family etc. Yet he feels unloved, uncared for etc. So the behaviour is that he will hit out, hurt others, damage things etc.

You can work on the behaviour, (and you need to because school expect that), and you can allow him to express his feelings and give them a voice - but ultimately the needs are the thing. And once those needs are met (and a year in is still relatively early, as I am often told as we are a year in) the behaviour should change. You are still working on providing him with that love and for him to feel it! It's a bit like a dried out plant. You can dunk a load of water over the dried earth surrounding the plant but it takes a while to truly seep in.

Please do get some adoption support if you can. If your expert post adoption support just says 'Time in' please seek some support elsewhere, if you can.

You may find neighbouring councls have some support you could use.

If you adopted out of county the county you adoted from should (IN THEORY) pay regardless of where the support is from.

Oh Butterfly that is so sad. It is very helpful to hear from adults who were adopted as children. My little boy has managed to weather things well, it was all so gradual for him, as he say birth parents after removal. It must have been so awful for it all to happen so fast.

My heart goes out to you and Dominio.

So crackerjack00 I’ve written some thoughts and hope they will help.

PLEASE ignore if not.

My dd is very good at school but a real handful at home sometimes. I noticed others said about catching him doing something good and praising. I know this sounds hard but actually it is quite easy! There are a lot of times I look at my dd and she is messing about and am just about to start a tirade of complaints and then I remember that it all becomes white noise and they do not hear it! So I might notice she is using her spoon, or even her knife and fork, halfway decently, so I say 'Good use of your cutlery, darling" Or I might remember that earlier on she did one tiny thing like carry in a bag from the car and I say about it (better to say at the time but I often do not!) or simply sitting in her chair nicely.

Try and use pro positive language. EG “Well done for sitting nicely.” NOT well done for not falling off your chair. This is true for instructions too. 'Hold the hand rail and walk slowly' NOT try not to fall over. (Lots of falling off chairs and banging heads in my house. My son is very accident prone! We try not to mention it so it does not become a self fulfilling prophesy! But he did bite his own finger while eating a sandwich last week!)

When you say "Habit of telling fantastical tales, not taking responsibility for actions, deflecting blame, and latching on to mitigating circumstances" I am not an expert but fantastical tales and (for us) downright lies are very common. It is hard.

I have tried so hard to get dd to tell the truth but dyslexic people sometimes have problems knowing the order things happen, e.g. I hit him and he hit me becomes he hit me so I hit him! You said if DH and I say 'I know it's difficult for you because of x, y and z, next time he's in trouble, he'll say I did it because of x, y and z). I would avoid giving him reasons for why he does stuff IMHO.

Rather I would help him to have language for what he is feeling. EG "You look very upset, I expect you are feeling frustrated Or It must be very hard when you want to something and aren't able to do it/get it etc.*

My son was not sure what frustrated meant so when he was happy and not angry we did an exercise where I asked him to get up off the bed and get something and then stopped him from getting up in a JOKEY way. After a couple of attempts I said how do you feel, and then offered for him "Do you feel frustrated? Wanting to do something and not being able to?" Then I let him get up and get the thing. I must stress I did not attempt this when he was already upset and if he had become upset I would have stopped! He knew it was a joke but the feelings were still real! And hopefully he can now know what frustration is, what it is called and how to explain it etc rather than just feeling an angry feeling!

Re he's upset that he's in trouble, says anything to deflect blame (so and so was doing it too. I didn't know you shouldn't (despite conversations taking place 48 hrs earlier between us where he's told he shouldn't), and the latest excuse, it's because he's had so many homes.

I think again it might help when he is not in trouble or not being naughty to find a story, book or short clip on the internet about a person, e.g. child picked on by other children or maybe even better a story where the characters are all animals but expressing human emotions, and where the story is about being picked on or not being treated well. Trying to explore how does the character feel? Left out, not happy, etc etc. To help him develop those feelings of empathy for others.

I think my latest parenting course and all the good ones I've done - the family links nurturing course being the best, (the book ‘The Parenting Puzzle’) basically emphasises praise and empathy but when there are punishments then it is more things like 'Take a break' to stop the problem at the time, e.g. at home fighting or arguing, which is different from the naughty step etc. Plus also taking away something they like for a limited time. That is tough if you tried with the party but that was a massive thing that could only be taken away once. So limited your power. And he chose not to care, so totally stole your thunder! Why not try shorter, smaller taking away, e.g. loss of telly or computer or device time, etc for a relatively short time. Come up with ideas with the school about what consequences may be appropriate. If he has pocket money and gets it in cash then taking it, or some of it, away one week to pay for a T-Shirt to be replaced may make him think.

I think that is enough from me (more than enough!) Good luck.