Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Adoption

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on adoption.

Talking to school about DS starting and when? Help, please!

60 replies

Italiangreyhound · 08/06/2014 21:36

Hi, well, a bit of a roller coaster here! Friday I was asking about pre-school and am now considering deferring ds's place in big school.

Please engage with me by message if you want more details about me but really I want to pick your brains experienced adopters, please.

I found a fab leaflet this leaflet called 'Let's learn together, from adoption UK. It is huge and helpful (from what I can see) BUT not really something I can take to the head or the future teacher!

So I need to ask...

  1. What kind of things did you say when talking to school about your child starting (if they joined your family by adoption)?

  2. Did you have any conversations about deferring a place or about starting mornings only etc?

  3. How did you get the message across succinctly that children who joined the family by adoption will have different needs etc?

  4. Was there a (smaller/briefer/less imposing) leaflet you gave to school?

No offence at all to non-adopters or newbie's like me, please do chip in your two-peneth (as I have done on MILLIONS of occasions).

If you are an experienced adopter I would especially like to hear your experiences about how things went and how it worked out.

So far have emailed head (twice) about pre-school and got no email back, just verbal message passed on Angry. Spoke to pre-school teacher and now feel it is too early (DS only been with us about a month).

So I now need to stop being on the train tracks and just plodding along with what everyone else does (what I would have done with non-adopted DD) and start to think about ds and what he needs!!

Thanks for reading, I know it is long!

And it's all about ME and my son (love saying that) and not a reflection on anyone else who did anything else differently! Thanks Grin

OP posts:
Italiangreyhound · 09/06/2014 20:29

Thanks Trinny.

OP posts:
Italiangreyhound · 09/06/2014 20:31

Thanks to everyone who has pmed me, I am so grateful.

I am finding this hugely stressful, am in tears quite a but and just feeling a lot of pressure to do the right thing while also hearing so many different views!

I am hopeful all will come right and I am VERY grateful for ALL* views, questions and comments which have been such a blessing to me.

I spoke to DS's social worker today and he is very supportive of DS and of us and totally understands my dilemma with school and my desire to do the right thing for ds.

OP posts:
Italiangreyhound · 10/06/2014 20:34

Amazingly, I have got the chance to put my case for starting later to the school Seco/Inclusion Manager or whatever they are called these days and she is pretty understanding and sympathetic. So I am going to meet her and talk about our situation and see what she can offer on behalf of the school, because they have a high level of say in what they do, apparently local authority take no part in it!

Feel very grateful to all who pmed me and encouraged me to explore this and get a solution that would suit ds. It is all about him. Feeling hopeful.

OP posts:
Italiangreyhound · 10/06/2014 22:17

Feeling so much better now!

When I started looking into the subject of school I had a nagging feeling...

I am not the best person to be around ds all the time - I am crap! Short-temprered and I can't play for toffee.

He needs other good people around him.

It's expected he will go to school now.

I am stealing a year off him, in that when he is leaving school he will know he could have left a year earlier!

NOW I KNOW

I am the best person to be around ds all the time - I am not crap! But yes, I am short-temprered sometimes and although I can't play for toffee - I can learn!

He doesn't need other good people around him if it means I can't be there but there are lots of things to do where we can be with other people and ME!

It's expected he will go to school now BUT that is not my concern!

This is all about ds and me* and how I feel .... it's not a reflection on anyone else and ds has only been with us a few weeks! So all about us not anyone else.

OP posts:
mummytime · 10/06/2014 22:34

You also don't have to decide to keep him down a year. I have known children go straight into year 1 with no reading/writing and "catch up". If you feel at any point he needs more - you could look at the Home Ed threads for ideas of how you can teach him without either being a qualified teacher or it being like school.

Some children might actually find the slightly more formal year 1 easier than the less structured reception classroom.

Italiangreyhound · 10/06/2014 23:14

Fascinating stuff...

www.gov.uk/government/publications/summer-born-children-school-admission

OP posts:
UnderTheNameOfSanders · 11/06/2014 10:34

And of course, if you do defer, he can still go to pre-school 2 or 3 sessions a week when you feel he is ready.

Angelwings11 · 11/06/2014 12:01

How old is AS?

Personally, I think you are doing the right thing. He at the moment is only a few weeks/months old emotionally with you, so you need to spend time (as you would a young infant) meeting their needs and building trust.

The suggestion of looking at the home ed sites etc is a good one. Also, you could look at these sites for some ideas.

nurturestore.co.uk
theimaginationtree.com

You may find it useful to create a visual timetable with activities set on the same days (children like structure and consistency) and also look into fifial play therapy.

Hope this helps

Kewcumber · 11/06/2014 12:46

I'd really recommend tumble tots for an active child if you are not so active yourself. You kind of walk around a circuit with them, helping them where necessary but really they're doing all the scrambling and energetic stuff, you just walk and help and depending on what they're doing just sit and make admiring noises!

It was fantastic for DS and it also cements you roles if you are helping him do stuff he needs help with.

Kewcumber · 11/06/2014 12:51

I particularly like that nurturestore site angelwings lots of ideas on that, the imagination tree one is quite preparation heavy for me and I'm a bit of a lazy git!

But I think I'm going to make some time for us to do something maybe Sundays which is a bit differnt to the norm - that nurturetree site might be the key...

Italiangreyhound · 12/06/2014 00:39

Angelwings bringing tears to my eyes!

theimaginationtree.com/2011/03/central-importance-of-play.html

"From a very young age children interact with the world around them using all of their senses, taking cues from those who engage with them and imitating their actions, sounds and behaviours. We are our child’s most important and influential teachers and we are being watched, constantly. We are not all, however, instinctively good at knowing how to play with our babies and toddlers, especially if we haven’t had much contact with young people in our lives before becoming parents, but it’s easy to learn. Playing with our children is much more natural and much less scary than we realise. For example, almost everybody at some point just “knows” to play Peekaboo with a baby, and just think of all the skills that little game teaches a child! Communication, interaction, taking turns, cause and effect, humour, object permanence, eye contact, facial gestures, emotions and the list could go on! All from a simple, easy game that requires absolutely nothing but a willing, engaged parent."

Being a parent again is bloody scary, you guys are reminding me it can be fun!

OP posts:
Italiangreyhound · 16/06/2014 14:29

Spoke to Senco, looks like school wants to go down the party line and shit all over my plans! If you have any wisdom fling it now, please. Private messages/advice etc very welcome. Thanks so much.

OP posts:
Swanhildapirouetting · 16/06/2014 17:44

Italian I'm not an adopter, but a friend who is, is considering home edding her recently adopted daughter as a way of keeping the nurturing going that little bit longer. Not necessarily forerever home edding, just for the first two years of formal school. They go to lots of activity groups, including Forest School etc. Just that she is there in the background too, and they have lots of time together to just BE.

Have you checked out the Home ed boards for a bit of support in that regard?

tethersend · 16/06/2014 22:56

Has the SENCo given reasons for the school's decision? Feel free to PM me if you'd rather not say on here.

steppemum · 16/06/2014 23:17

I'm not an adopter, but have had many school decisions to make (and I am a teacher by training)

  1. School will always push party line, you can stick to your guns and refuse. You haven't said when his birthday is, but he doesn't have to be in school until the term after he is 5. If he is a summer birthday, as long as you have the place now, they cannot remove that place from you until the beginning of Year 1. In other words, if you say you are planning to take it up at some point in the school year, they have to hold the place for you.
So you could say we will start, after half term, or after christmas, or... In my experience, school will back off if you are just firm and polite in your decision over timing. Also, there are often children who do long stretches of morning only (eg my friend's son with ASD did a very long slow intro to reception) so even if it isn't their favourite option, don't be afraid to push for it if that is what would suit you and ds.
  1. As a parent we fret and worry so much about these decisions, as if there is only one right answer, and if we miss that answer we will have screwed it up for our dc. There isn't. There are many ways of doing this, some have one advantage, some another. One may suit your ds better, but the alternative isn't wrong/bad, just slightly less good. The decision you make isn't going to be make or break, just better and best. I find that makes it easier for me to see the pros and cons and not worry so much about decisions I have less control over
Italiangreyhound · 17/06/2014 00:06

Thanks Thanks Swanhildapirouetting, home ed! My friend does it, I think she is amazing. I am not personally a fan (no offence to anyone who does it). It could be a good idea for some people but don't think it would be right for us.

tethersend Thanks, I have pmed you. Grin

Thanks steppemum, he is a summer baby but that is not my main reason for being concerned. If he were my birth child I would not be worried about starting school when not long turned 4.You said ... as you have the place now, they cannot remove that place from you until the beginning of Year 1. But I thought if you did not take up the place in that year then it would be lost and I would need to re-apply.

I am not so worried about school 'backing off' because if I say he won't go until 2015 that seems like fine as long as it is my legal right to make that decision, e.g. they cannot make him attend before September 2015 but what I really want is for him to go into Reception in 2015.

I am worried about ... long stretches of morning only because he will miss out on the fun of the afternoon. How about if I tell school he will go but only in the afternoon, for the fun stuff! I wonder if they will 'allow' that!

I honestly cannot see any pros in starting ds in school before he is ready. There may be for some kids but I cannot see how that is the case for our son. If he were to start school in September he would have been with us for roughly four months. Most other children in school (unless they are also LAc) would have had at least four years with one or both parents. That is the issue for my ds, not the fact he was born in the summer. The summer thing is just an unfortunate crap item which throws a spanner in his school career at the start because if he were a tiny bit younger we would have a whole year to consider this while bonding and attaching at ease!

As I say, this will not be the case for all summer babies.

The fact my dd's school cannot see this for ds is making me feel less and less sure it is the right school for him. I just have to remain calm and nice and not burn any bridges.

Generally I would agree with the idea that ...There are many ways of doing this, some have one advantage, some another. One may suit your ds better, but the alternative isn't wrong/bad, just slightly less good. but in this case I don't see any plus side to him starting school early (Though you are, of course, entitled to a different opinion Smile).

It's all about sharing opinions and information on here and I am very grateful for people taking the time to post to me in my hour of need.

OP posts:
steppemum · 17/06/2014 00:32

Hi Italian, sorry I don't think my post came over as I intended it too. I have no opinion one way or the other, very much believe in parents knowing their own children and fighting their corner for them. It was supposed to encourage you!

The only reason I mention the summer baby thing, is that legally he has to start school (or you have to say he is Home Ed) from the term after he is 5. So if he is 5 in June, then he has to start in Sept 2015. They therefore have to hold that place for you (reception place as it were) until he is the term after he is 5, (which in this case would be the beginning of year 1)

Which was just to say, you have the right not to put him in, and they still have to hold the place. (this only applies to reception, as they don't legally have to take up the place until 5)

I am not suggesting he does or doesn't go to school (only you know what is best) just giving you the facts to use to get what you want from the school.

Reception (in our school) doesn't have the fun stuff in the afternoon, they run a rolling play based program and fun stuff is mixed with work all through the day. The one thing they do do in the morning is phonics, which is the one thing that would be handy to do if you don't send him in.

The one comment I would say is that if you delay him for one year, until sept 2015, then he would normally just start in year 1 with his peer group (which would be fine, he would soon pick up) I think from your post you would like him to start in reception? I think you will struggle to get the school to agree to that, they only do it in very rare circumstances. I would say that he may then be too 'old' for reception, and out of step with his peers. I would suggest that you only want him out of step with his peers group if he has a SEN that would benefit from being with younger children, Otherwise I would put in in with the same age group.

My second point was really just to say, whatever you decide, it will be ok, - not that I think he should or shouldn't - just that some of these decisions we make FEEL like it is a black and white choice, the RIGHT decision as opposed to the WRONG one, but actually most of the time, it is not, it is a good and better choice, and that was supposes to be an encouragement to relax about it and not panic if you don't get all the decisions you want from the school.

steppemum · 17/06/2014 00:36

One last thought, you don't need to make any decision actually about when he starts now. You have a place, and you can say he will not start in sept, and then wait and see, so at Christmas you can decide if he will go in january and if not, then review again at easter and so on.

I think it is hard to make long term choices when he has been with you such a short time, and it is hard to know where you and he will be in 6 months.

(congratulations by the way, I love hearing adoption stories)

Italiangreyhound · 17/06/2014 01:23

Thanks Steppemum. You do not need to apologise. I knew you were being encouraging.

I think I read about the school place in the literature but I could be wrong. I could leave things very open but I am just so disappointed in the school for their approach that I would rather know what the plan is for ds.

I am very happy for him to start school once he turns 5. The issue is really what year he will go into. The school do not currently want to consider reception in 2015. They might change their mind but who knows. So far I have not been very impressed with their attitude.

If you work in education could you advise me (please Grin) what you think would be best for someone who was going to go into Year one in 2015.

Just start in 2015 in year one
Start Reception full time or part time in April 2015
Start Reception full time or part time in Jan 2015

He won't be starting in September 2014 - unless something heavy falls on my head between now and then!

The attachment thing (to us) may only be relevant now but the summer baby thing and any other issues would be present for ds potentially all the time. So by going down a year it might go some tiny way to redress this balance. I really do not think it will give him any kind of 'advantage'.

I am pretty sure Reception in dd's school (my birth dd is already at the school) is mornings academic and afternoon play! A mixture would be nicer.

I guess I find the whole idea of a peer group quite bizare. It's just a fluke of nature and a matter of weeks and months that puts these kids together, the way school talk about 'his peers' (not you - the school) one would think they all had some great bond and connection. IMHO they do not. They may build a bond by being together, but that would work if the kids were anywhere within a few months or a couple of years close to each other. It is the putting them together that forms a 'peer group' but as someone else has reminded me, they are not all peers as his experiences are very different to him.

I can't really see how he can be too old for reception if he is only a few weeks older than the other kids? How can a few weeks make a difference when the three terms spand a whole year (52 weeks!)? I guess I need to understand what people in education mean when they say those kinds of things.

Some of the kids would only be a few weeks younger and he is pretty young for his age. I can't really see a mismatch.

I mean if he is rushed into school too soon, has attachment issues and ends up with special needs because of that does that then jusitfy me to have some sort of come back on the school or do they simply make these decisions (with my tax payer money) and then not own the results? Who is accountable here?

I see what you mean about whatever you decide, it will be ok and sometimes I do agree to that sort of philosophy but not always. It's just that sometimes I think there are right or wrong decisions. And with children who have already had a rough start in life it does seem important to make the right decision, especially for something that will possibly affect him for a long time to come.

As I say Steppemum I do value your thoughts and I am very grateful for people posting things on this theme.

OP posts:
64x32x24 · 17/06/2014 15:02

Hiya Italian,

I think in terms of 'right' and 'wrong' it is probably quite 'right' not to start your DS at school in this coming September. It's less than three months from now!

Any further choices, I would say it is a little early for you to be making them now.

You might find, who knows, that by Sept 2015 (a whole year and 3 months from now), he is relatively securely attached to you, and pretty mature for his age, academically capable, and you would regret having to send him to reception; whereas he would easily fit into year 1. Or you might find that by then, some significant SEN have emerged, and what with attachment still being insecure, and him being emotionally immature, he would fit a lot better with a younger cohort. At which point it will probably be easier to convince SENCO etc.
I just think it isn't worth 'fighting' right now, for him being able to start reception in Sept 2015; when it may turn out that actually, by Sept 2015, you'd be happy for him to join Y1. Or, by 2015, you'd be much better armed to actually win that fight.

And others are right, you can review the situation on an ongoing basis. Despite what you think now, come September, you might feel you'd like to try him going to school in the mornings - or, perhaps more likely, you'd like to try him going to nursery school for a couple of mornings. You might still be able to find a place on short notice. And you could always pull him out again if it isn't working out.
Towards the end of the year, you can decide again - try nursery school, try school P/T, stay at home. And come Easter time, you can decide again.

One thing I would try NOT to worry about, is missing out on academic learning. The academic learning that is done in reception, as far as I can gather from reading up on it (DS is starting reception in Sept) is probably about equivalent to 10 minutes one-to-one learning per day, you can EASILY do that at home, without even noticing - and if you don't, it is entirely possible to catch up within a short time.
Why reception is seen as important is not because of the phonics or numbers, it's because the children learn 'how to be at school'. Now in some schools reception really is like proper school - and IMHO 4yo is too young for having to learn that, I feel we do our children a disservice. Most certainly your DS does not need that lesson quite yet.
In other schools reception is very much like nursery school, and can be lots of fun, but then it doesn't achieve this aim of 'preparing for real school' - so those kids who went to reception will be just as 'shocked' upon entering Y1 as your DS would be, having missed out on reception.

Ok, so missing out on reception and starting directly in Y1 sounds like a reasonable choice from my perspective, but there ARE of course downsides (to everything). Such as, joining a class with established friendship groups (though some schools mix up the classes between YR and Y1). I do understand, dear Italian, that you wish to make everything perfect for your DS who has already had enough trouble in his young life. But sadly you can't make everything 'right' - you can't change the fact that he has come home to you a few short months before due to start school, so that he will either have to start school earlier than you would like/than would be good for him, or have to deal with the downsides of starting school at a later time than his classmates-to-be. You can only try to make the best out of the situation. IMO the downsides of missing YR (in part or entirely) are probably much smaller than the downsides of starting too soon. And IF it turns out that going into Y1 in Sept 2015 would just not be right for him, then you would have a strong case for THEN fighting for him to be able to go into reception.

One last thought - if you find your school is not willing to work WITH you on this, not willing to be accommodating to your DS' particular needs - then indeed, maybe this is not the right school for him, not now and not next year either.

Italiangreyhound · 17/06/2014 15:58

64 (your name is soooo long) thank you.... I just think it isn't worth 'fighting' right now, for him being able to start reception in Sept 2015; when it may turn out that actually, by Sept 2015, you'd be happy for him to join Y1. Or, by 2015, you'd be much better armed to actually win that fight. yes you make a compelling argument.

I guess I fear the school will pressurise me to send him before September 2015 - which might be ok if he was ready.

The only trouble with trying nursery too soon is he would be away from me and also he would be mixing with children who would be in the year below him, and at a different school if we end up going for a different school to DD. This may well be fine or could set up conflict if he gets special friends and then we move him to a different school and/or different year.

Yes *
One thing I would try NOT to worry about, is missing out on academic learning.* I do agree but in my heart I do still WORRY! That's me. What will he miss if he misses foundation?

I often feel schools talk about 'learning' when they mean 'teaching'. They teach things and assume kids will learn them. I think it just does not work that way!

You do speak wisdom.... IMO the downsides of missing YR (in part or entirely) are probably much smaller than the downsides of starting too soon. And IF it turns out that going into Y1 in Sept 2015 would just not be right for him, then you would have a strong case for THEN fighting for him to be able to go into reception.... my dear! Thank you.

Yes, dawning on me Sad sadly that dd's school which has done a mediocre job for her, may well do a terrible job for ds. I am sad as I have been a big supporter of school.

Thanks so much.

OP posts:
Swanhildapirouetting · 17/06/2014 18:21

ds2 who was an March baby, but a twin, and difficulties concentrating went into Reception for mornings only. It was fine. They encouraged it.

Italiangreyhound · 17/06/2014 21:29

Thanks Swanhildapirouetting.

OP posts:
Hels20 · 17/06/2014 21:34

There's something in adoption uk magazine that I read about one of the major problems that causes attachment disorder is starting school too soon, Italian. Do you get the magazine?

I'll try and dig it out.

Italiangreyhound · 17/06/2014 22:22

Thanks Hels have pmed you.

OP posts: