New Children and Families Act 2014

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the family law provisions of above, coming into force this month apparently. Anyone know anything about this?
Apparently it may have consequences for adoption.

suesspiciousminds.com/2014/03/16/applying-for-contact-after-a-child-is-adopted/

(Sorry to repost a link from a thread which was deleted earlier today. I do believe it may be relevant.)

It seems there is a new provision for birth parents to apply for contact (direct or any other kind) at any time AFTER the adoption order.

I personally am open to the idea of contact and would be happy to explore it even years down the line. I think there should be something in place to help re-instate contact if it has broken down previously, or if at the time of the adoption order, the birth parents' circumstances were not right for contact, but have now changed. In general, I think there should be more support for contact (direct and letterbox), on all sides. I'm not saying that contact is good in every case, but just referring to those cases where it may well be a positive thing all round.

However I worry that courts may force contact even if the adoptive parents do not agree; and that adoptive families may feel less secure/permanent, if at any time they could be invited to court to determine if contact should be granted.

Devora unless I'm misreading this is not a proposal - this is the law.

Not sure whether we are going to be able to do this. Cannot believe they didn't mention this at our prep group.

And x post. Daffodil we are very much in agreement here...

And not your fault O she with a sum for a username

We are, I also suspect that our feelings will be fairly representative of most adopters yet to actually adopt. This will be a game changer for a lot of people.

This just feels like they're playing on people's desperation. A large number of adopters will be adopting because they've decided against fertility treatment, and so adoption is their only route to being parents and will therefore proceed in spite of this because it's either this, or never being a parent. I know that sounds dramatic, but that's how this is making me feel.

We can either be second class parents, or never be parents.

Is this UK wide, or just England and Wales? Not that that will make a difference, I am sure if it's just England and Wales, it'll not be long before it's Scotland and NI too.

Playing devil's advocate here, I'm pretty freaked by this myself!

Ok so trying to imagine a situation where it would be the right thing for the child to have direct, court ordered contact, but wasn't at the time of adoption order, hence not already determined in adoption order.

Baby removed from birth parents due to injuries which later turn out to have been due to a condition.
Care proceedings quick, say half a year, in which time there is 2x/week contact, and baby placed with adopters at 9 months; contact ceases.
Papers filed for adoption order at 13 months; adoption order granted at 16 months.
At 20 months 'condition' is discovered. At 2y it is certain that birth parents did not cause baby any harm, they were in fact perfectly adequate parents.
From then on, child sees birth parents once/month for a few hours, and spends overnight there twice/year.

I don't know. It would be hard to manage the confused feelings all round. But I can imagine that the toddler in question could cope with growing up seeing their birth parents regularly. I can imagine that it would be better for them to learn from the start that mistakes had been made... this would just be their reality and they would grow up knowing this, and in a way it's better than having to grapple with the fact that your birth parents neglected/abused you, or something of that ilk.
I can imagine it getting really hard when they turn into teenagers. However, in the same situation, but without the ongoing contact in the years before, it might be even worse.

In haste - isn't this actually a codification and re labelling of the present position? Which is that actually any person can apply for contact with ANY child under I think s20 of the children's act? And like this it is a two stage process. I could apply for a contact order with my neighbours kids if I felt like it but the court wouldn't give me leave to make the application :)

So I don't think things have changed, just been re labelled. But id be extremely interested in a legal understanding of that.

The hurdles look pretty significant to me and in all honesty I am more worried that it will be like the legal provision for contesting an adoption order - no cases granted since 2005 I believe, but causing large numbers of birth parents to come to court and go through a lot of distress. And ref a previous poster, the existence of the legislation doesn't mean it will happen - I don't believe an adoption order has yet been successfully contested, though I may be wrong. If I am it's in single figures.

When I really think about it I can't say I like it, but as far as contact goes I am more worried about the high chance of my DCs finding their birth parents or being found by them in Facebook and the like. Much more likely than any of their birth relatives making a legal application.

And I do want to say that despite all the above I agree that contact of all sorts may be very desirable and important and positive for adopted people. I hope that at least one of my DC will get in touch with their birth family someday. But I do think it needs to be at the child's pace and in the child's best interests.

Hope that helps a bit.

Agree with Maryz also like too add Child's right in so much child was too young too be have a say in contact decisions of any form, but later may be old enough too make a decision and wishes no contact , it can and does happen ?? What then.

namechanges, it's the dimensions of a duplo brick. ;)

and you know me, I've namechanged, we had a brief pm-chat about our worries about approval panel. skeletons in the closet and all that.

All my 'extreme case' thoughts ... so far so good (or not) but extend that to foster carers, guardians, grandparents...?!?

I didn't realise what was going on until I read suesspiciousminds' blog post! So either I am more than usually inept and not paying attention or this has deliberately been flown in under the radar.

But why? why? I agree with all the concerns raised in the blog and on here. Seems odd to say the least, particularly with all the other well identified problems around post adoption funding - very little support for anyone it seems.

Hm interesting Swans. Thanks for putting into perspective!

Another final thought from me, then it's off to bed:

For me, having a child is the ultimate commitment. More so than getting married - people divorce all the time. But you can't 'un-parent' yourself. Since DP is equally my child's parent, deciding to have a child together is also a commitment to each other. Even if we no longer have a romantic relationship, we will still always both be our DS' parents. And same for any future AC.

So, having a child binds me forever to my DP, more so (in my personal feeling) than getting married would.

Now my adoptive child has another set of parents already. In choosing to adopt, in some ways I bind myself to my child's other parents too. They will never stop being part of who my child is. For better or for worse.

Ok I just realised I don't really know what this has to do with contact, or court ordered contact, so I'll stop here! Good night, and I hope things become clearer tomorrow.

Ok rather than going to bed, I had a look at this link, thanks MyFeet.

It appears that the new act is meant to make getting 'forced' contact (a contact order from a court) HARDER for birth parents, than it is today.

The authors of that paper argue that the new legislation seems to be influenced by an anti-contact sentiment.

They say that in reality, contact orders will practically never be made against the wishes of the adoptive parents. And if the adoptive parents are happy with contact, no orders need to be made anyway.
They argue that the new law appears to be made to REASSURE prospective adopters, as they now will have FEWER worries about having contact forced upon them.
They also say that given that adoptions are meant to be whipped through faster than ever now, in their opinion, more provisions for contact should be made (kind of acknowledging that there will be more mistakes?), whereas in fact, contact is being made harder to get.

Ah.... that puts it into a completely different light.

As Swan wrote:
Now, anyone can apply for a contact order, anytime. Obviously including birth parents.
From end of the month, birth parents (and all the other people named) can no longer apply for a contact order, rather, they must FIRST apply for leave to make such an application, which will nearly always be rejected.

The research paper is very interesting. I had only skimmed but this thread has encouraged me to take a closer look.

I note this in particular

The reforms in the Children and Families Act, however (if they are to have any substantive effect), create the risk that genuine investigations on the appropriateness of ordered post-adoption contact in the cases of individual children will occur even less frequently than they do under the current law, and that would clearly bring law and practice even further out of line unless local authorities were extremely strongly influenced by the policy messages sent out by the Act.

My worry is however that the amendment is going to be used by some to encourage more applications which are hopeless.

It all seems such a mess. I don't think there has been anything like the proper debate and consideration of research that is needed - just a push for adoption as that is 'always' the best thing for children. But I think for some of the older, more damaged children, there has to be a recognition that is just not true and we either need to consider earlier and more effective intervention with their birth families OR better provision of therapeutic foster placements.

Oh I know who you are duploish one You and soontobethree are the only name changes I can remember and she's just fucked off

That clarification helps - is it real though or just hopeful?

I think the sad fact is that social services just don't enable contact and I think if a court order was in place it would mean social services would get the nudge in yhw right direction. I didn't even know I could apply for a contact order before the adoption order was granted.I was led to believe it could only be done after wards by the social worker (which now makes me feel contact won't continue once it's been granted)

My ds has been in his adoptive placement 10 months. Honestly I would love a long chat with the adoptive parents about how they feel about once a year face to face. And whether or not they feel it would be disruptive to our miracle.

However I feel a court order stating months and dates for letters to ensure that they did arrive would be beneficial as then birth parents Might actually be acknowledged by social services.

I do feel however there should be a limit to the number of times a parent can apply.

I had a very sad tweet a few weeks ago, from one of the Hemming Brigade saying that Justice for Families were now 'winning' appeals.

She sent me the link to the case - the appeal was dismissed as 'hopelessly misconceived' and without any merit.

So some poor parent was dragged through all of that for nothing. I have a real fear that some people with an agenda will be using this to raise people's hopes for nothing but self aggrandisement of a few conspiracy theorists.

I worry about that too

Very disappointed to see this change. Even more disappointed to see that this has slipped through unnoticed because it's deliberately not been publicised. The categories for who can apply for contact are too broad and it is undermining the very point of adoption

What about kids like my DS? I'm sure his birth mum thinks I'm responsible for cutting off contact as well, but it's all him. He's even asking for his original first name to be deed polled out of his name (it's a middle name right now). He would not be able to handle the idea of contact with her. And I know that in this case the likelihood of a court making a contact order is nearly null, but a court case alone would cause huge emotional distress and trauma. I worry that will happen to other children

I agree this will just fuel the family rights groups who are of the opinion that 'children are being stolen' to meet adoption targets. Why would the government or a court for that matter grant contact to a relative who has molested a child? Or even entertain this after an AO. Quite frankly I am appalled. I am not a long term carer but a parent for the rest of my life to AD. In the future AD May or may not want to have direct contact with her bF, but this should be her choice after she is 18.

I just wanted to add that it just reinforces that us adoptive parents are second rate; and that it is ok to re-traumatise our children for the greater good of the BF.

I think that everyone else's feelings should be put aside and only the child's feelings and interests should be considered. Everyone is going to have sn opinon and feelings but what actually should be at the heart of the matter is the child. Just as it is when a placement order is granted