Quick! Calm me down!

[Devora]

OK, I know we're not supposed to start a thread about a thread, and I'm not going to link to it, but I'm feeling so hurt and angry about something going on in another corner of MN that I have lost my legendary tact and charm and become lairy.

I need calming down. I need soothing. I need someone who Gets It.

Anyone in tonight?

Lilka, I would LOVE to read that thread! That woudl really get my blood up. Did I really miss it at the time? Would it be a very, very bad idea for me to go and search it out?

Devora yes I was the only adoptive parent on it apart from the OP I think, but I may be remembering wrongly. The thread was actually deleted by MN - THAT'S how badly it turned out! It really would have raised your blood pressure, I was stunned at some of the comments

Devora, you were brilliant on that thread, I don't know how you kept your cool for so long.

Sorry you're having a shitty week.

I'm still reeling at the implication that alcohol abuse and broccoli over eating are somehow on a sliding scale together!
Devora, I hope you are ok - sending you supportive vibes!

I haven't seen the thread, just wanted to say thank you for trying to inject some sense into them, I'm never brave enough! Also have sympathy with the ill household, this evening's second load of pukey bedding has just gone in the drier...

My DD also has a tongue tie that no-one did anything about. I think cos there is no consensus about management (especially with bottle feeders) no-one will make the decision to snip them for looked after children. DD is too little to know whether it will affect her speech, fingers crossed at the moment

Thanks holycow - I am now actually running a temperature, which explains a lot.

You lovely people have made me feel a whole lot better. I'm now going to pack away the work I was attacking very half-heartedly, make a hot water bottle and go to bed. (Sadly, accompanied by a 4 year old!)

Devora - I didn't read the thread, nor would I have a clue how it feels to be an adoptive mother. Don't let narrow-minded people bring you down. There are ALWAYS mothers out there that will be quick to judge or push their opinions upon people without considering opinions of other's. Like namechangesforthehardstuff says - fuck 'em. I sincerely hope everything turns out ok with your little girl.

For what it's worth Devora, I'd love to hear more about your daughter and what life is like, growing up with the effects of alcohol and drugs. What it's like for her, for you, for your other daughter.

Partially for selfish reasons - we're talking matching considerations with assessing SW. It helps to be prepared. But partially also because I care - as weird as it is to care for random strangers on the internet, I don't seem to be able to stop myself.

And just to say, I find the whole tongue tie situation to sound infuriating. Your daughter does not deserve to be let down like this. Is there any chance of going private?

Devora there's a chap in Northampton (I think) who does laser tongue tie surgery privately. Apparently much quicker and less traumatic. I've been considering taking DS to see him to avoid precisely the shennanigans you're having to go through with your DD2. It's been on the back burner but if you like I can forage for the details and send you the link.

I'm mainly a lurker, being stuck forever in pre-approval groundhog day, but always appreciate your insights. Hope your DH will loook after you if you're going down with something on top of ignorant people ruining your day.

Meita, that's really kind of you. I remember when we were looking for matching, desperately trying to read clues that would give us some kind of definitive picture about what life we were taking on. But when you adopt a baby (dd was 10 months) there is very little you can know for sure and I think the main way I would describe our experience is relentless uncertainty - but also unexpected depths of joy.

I should stress that I do not know for certain that dd is damaged by alcohol, and there are certainly posters here whose children are battling far worse effects. In fact, I went through a stage of feeling rather smug that dd seemed to have escaped unscathed. I no longer think that. Undoubtedly, she has escaped major physiological damage - she is bright and healthy and meeting all her developmental milestones. But I don't think she is wired quite like other children, and I increasingly find that standard parenting techniques don't work with her.

There are two main ways this manifests at the moment: one is her intense need for connection and fear of isolation. She cannot sleep on her own, she works herself into hysteria if she even thinks about the possibility of me or her sister dying, she can't even go to the toilet unaccompanied. The other way is that she doesn't seem to have a thermostat: she really struggles to self-soothe, everything escalates up and up until she is screaming or hitting or sometimes just weeping for help with stopping the feelings. I have pretty good experience of 4 year olds and I don't know another 4 year old who seems quite like this.

Is this alcohol? Is this drugs? Is this adoption? Is this spending your first several weeks of life undergoing a traumatic and painful withdrawal with nobody there to hold and comfort you? I don't know. I might never know. But it is my constant challenge to find ways to help her, and to find the strength to advocate for her and not be embarrassed or affected by others telling that I should just toughen up etc.

I need to put all this into context by stressing that she is a really lovely little girl. She's doing well at school and has lots of friends. She is intensely loving, funny, cute as a button. But she will never be an easy child, and life with her will be a long journey of discovery and challenge.

MoJangled, that is hugely kind of you and I would love to get more details of this guy, if you can find them. Thanks so much.

Gosh Devora, your daughter sounds really intense. Living and feeling her emotions, good and bad, 100% and more. I obviously have no idea what 'it is' but it does sound like you are doing the right thing, focusing on what she needs rather than endlessly and fruitlessly trying to pin down the exact cause. Thanks so much for sharing!
I hope you are all starting to feel better now.

Devora my DD cannot bear to be without me either
We have had a very intense (and sometimes suffocating) relationship
She has slept with me, at her worst she woke up if I turned away from her
She can't go upstairs without me
I don't know if it is the attachment or FASD or a combination of both

Can't find the original link, although I'll forward it when I do, but while poking around I found this practice which has clinics all over the place, which might be a more convenient option. This has nudged me to get get going myself...

Devora.... The more you write about dd2 the more she sounds like my wonderful dd3.
She is wired totally different to other children.
She has never been able to self soothe, and as she is nearly 7 and still comes into our bed every night, I hav a feeling it will be a long journey, but we don't mind that.
She has her own agenda and has to follow, no way out of it. Not worth trying too.
As you know she has a dx of FASD, but that doesn't define her. She is still our little girl, who is inquisitive and bright and loving and compassionate and loves her big sisters with a passion ( even when she's thumping them!) she is kind to her few friends.
The other children at school like her because she does all the mischievous things that they think about but their filter tells them not to do.
I totally missed the thread you were talking about, fortunately. But, I'm sure you were your normal polite, eloquent self, even if you felt like telling them all to f off.

Intense is the word, Meita. She is either clinging round my neck, smothering me with kisses, hitting her sister, screaming, dancing round the room, or making me accompany her as she changes her outfit for the tenth time that day. Though, now I think of it, she can really concentrate (very intensely!) on arts and crafts stuff. She is also very naturally athletic - I was astonished to see today that she can outrun her sister, who is four years older and not a bad runner herself. I'm thinking of trying to find some kind of athletics club for her - does such a thing exist for 4 year olds?! - to give her a focus and an outlet.

Moomoomie, roadwalker, yes our girls do sound similar. I kind of wish they didn't, for obvious reasons, but it's also really really good to hear of other children like her, I hope you won't mind me popping up to ask for strategy suggestions at various points.

MoJ, thank you so much - I will definitely investigate that.

I'm not sure if they have athletics clubs for 4 year olds, maybe worth asking at your local sports centre. Do you think she would enjoy gymnastics? They start early, although dd3 would never cope with the structure and waiting your turn etc of gymnastics.
I totally understand why you don't want to join our club! Happy to help, although I'm no expert.

Devora - I know you know how alike I think your DD and my DS are and certainly in his case sport has been the key to both channeling his energy and also in recent years using it as a reward/natural consequence to his behaviour. eg he has to be able to use behaviour that sports coaches can cope with and if he is too hard to manage he cant go - it really is that simple. (not for him but the rule is that simple).

I found organised sport very hard to find pre-school and gymnastics didn;t cut it for DS even though he was very good at it - too much waiting around in turn he found very very hard and got bored.

My two suggestions would be ones you might not have thought of - Little Kickers (lots and lots of girls do football) and rugby tots - there are still girls playing at DS's age and if she is (like DS) sensory seeking then rugby is a good game for having lots of running about, rolling around but isn't too contact-y (its tag rugby until they're in year 4) and lots of good rugby clubs around you. I also find the rugby coaches are almost inevitably parents and handle the children much better than your average 23 year old sports coach.

www.rugbytots.co.uk

Currently full near you but you could go on the waiting list. Quite expensive but a local club will be much much cheaper - don;t think they take them until they're at least in reception though.

www.littlekickers.co.uk/signup.aspx

I should also add that I think sport has been helpful in boosting his self esteem which also helps

Fantastically helpful, thank you Kew. dd2 actually did a football session once and was very good - she won 'Man of the Match' . I fear she is so compulsively girly that she may not go for it (this is a child who believes that women can't be doctors - she even tried arguing the case with her auntie who is, in fact, a doctor). But I completely get what you say about finding something that involves keeping going, and not having to wait for turns. When I've taken her to other things (gym, ballet etc) it is in the pauses that she turns round, looks at me, and runs back weeping. So I'll definitely give it a bash.

PS. You'll appreciate this, Kew: another same sex couple at our school! It's a bit like the parakeets: you let one bugger in and they start multiplying...

Didn't the parakeets escape from somewhere though Devora they're not native to the area are they?

The girls I know who play football and rugby at that age are all pretty girly. I'm sure you could get a very attractive sports kit for her