Support thread thread for those feeling a bit overwhelmed by the plethora of threads atm

[Kewcumber]

Thats it really - do you feel a bit under siege?! I do.

I feel cross that I seem to be constantly defending a system that I think is far from perfect but that on the whole those attacking have no idea of the ramifications of some of what they are suggesting.

I feel sad that once more adoptive parents seem to be considered the people who aren't quite behaving perfectly enough when the reality is that our children are where they are because their birth parents weren't quite perfect enough.

On one thread, it was suggested that if adoptive parents couldn't deal with sharing their child with birth parents that perhaps they weren;t up to the job and that if a child had been with adoptive parents for 10 years that maybe be child should still be returned to the birth parents if it were discovered there had been a mistake.

I cannot say again and again and again that I think even 1 mistake is a tragedy and that we must make every effort to avoid this. And yet every new starts again with the assumption that adoptive parents are "against" any birth parents. They seem to think that we have no empathy or understanding of the horror birth parents feel at having a child removed - like we're not really parents and we wouldn't feel the same horror at having our children removed. My blood runs cold at the thought of it.

I have also in the last year had a bit of a wake up call about how convincing people you know can be when they swear blind that they didn't do something, that their child has mental health problems and made up stories. When it was all proven to be true, I can;t tell you how much it shook me - even nice "normal" people do dreadful things to their children and it amazes me that social workers see this all the time and still manage (on the whole) to give parents a fair hearing.

I'd love to be able to have a sensible conversation about how many times parents fight and continue to fight for their children and the children are still subsequently adopted - I think that would help me quantify in my own mind how fair this figure of "thousands" thats been bandied around is, because I'm fed up of not being able to refute it for lack of evidence that that doesn;t seem to stop anyone else.


It's wearing and I'm getting sick of it and I've got work to do.

Here endeth the first rant.

[Devora]

Ah ladies, how lovely to see this thread. Like sinking into a warm bath

Kew - actually, dd1 WAS plug ugly till about 3, when she started to improve quite significantly. dd2, on the other hand, was a staggeringly pretty baby - very Gap ad - and has stayed extremely cute. Mind, she's the adopted one. So you can see what I did there. BAD adopter, clearly - I got a beautiful baby girl (though she's not blonde or white - do I get credit points for that?)

[Devora]

wereatthezoo and StupidMistakes - to you both.

[Meita]

I am from a country that has a dark, terrible history of stealing children. A government sanctioned effort that was nothing short of genocidal; aiming to eradicate Travellers/Roma by removing their children from them, so as that there never would be a new generation. There was a very thin veil of pretending to be doing it for the sake of the children, who would have a 'better life' away from their families and culture; in reality the children were usually used as cheap labour for instance in farmer households, and never became real members of new families, so even that claim was totally false. This continued for too long, and to far to close to the present.
Accordingly, I put a lot of thought into the question of forced removal of children from their parents, when considering if adoption is right for us. Of course it is not the adopters who remove children from parents, nor who make the placement orders; but still I feel that adopters as a group do bear some responsibility. The programme of stealing children I mentioned, would not have worked if there hadn't been any families willing/eager to take on these children. Adopters play a part in enabling 'the system', so if I felt that 'the system' was unjust/morally wrong, I don't think I would want to adopt.
All the stuff going on has made me go back and think again about these issues. It is frustrating: Of COURSE the system isn't perfect, and mistakes are made, and it is terrible when that happens. I have some major reservations about how things work. I just about manage to slide on to the side where I feel it is ok for us to adopt without being enablers of evil machinations. I don't want to defend the status quo, it is far from perfect, I'd say it is only by a small margin 'good enough' - mainly due to the lack of better alternatives. But when confronted with such onslaughts, I find myself having to defend it, or else give in and give up. Even if just internally - so far I have resisted being pulled in. I'd much prefer constructive honest discussions about what really needs changing and how.


Sorry for rambling on - this week, and the threads on here, must be affecting adopters, prospective and actual, in many ways. And birth parents too, and of course adoptees. It certainly is affecting my thinking during the assessment process!

[nennypops]

Can I tiptoe in as a non-adoptive mother to echo DrankSangria when she said "Many of you on the mad threads have shown a dignity and love for your children that the crackpot brigade wouldn't know if it smacked them round the chops. x" I've got involved just because it seemed to me that Hemmings and his followers could not have been more wrong if they tried, and really one of the main reasons they have been so thoroughly shown up lies in the contributions from adoptive parents who quietly show the reality of what these people are posturing about. Most importantly, you have kept the focus on the people they are least interested in, namely the children.

[mrsballack]

What a lovely thread. I've not posted on 'those' threads as I feel others can put things much more eloquently than I can. The adoption boards always felt like a safe place and somewhere I can come for a bit of support if needed (not that I've posted much)
I came on this week to share my excitement as we count down the last few days until we get to finally meet our children and have felt unable to post about it for fear of being accused of any number of horrid things.
We are defo in the bad adopters group as we turned down an older sibling group in favour of a younger pair (not due to age alone as the sensible people will realise) and we still have a spare room.

[Italiangreyhound]

Meita your post really resonates with me, thanks for sharing. I really hope that in time the system and the way things work will get better. I fear it will not as I fear our current government will starve it of money.

The Women's hour programme this week which featured a short segment on a mum who fled to another country made a very interesting point that many women have multiple children who are each taken away from them. After the child has been removed the birth mum does not get much support at all so in many ways it is very unsurprising that a while later she may be in the same position again. This is most definitely not the case for all birth mothers but for some, and the lady on the programme had had 7 children. She had had a troubled difficult life and been in bad relationships with me. My heart really went out to her and I think there are so many things wrong with the system when so many people can sort of fall through the cracks!

I wish the energy and emotion in the media directed at all parties in the adoption triangle could actually be directed at better care, earlier intervention, better support for all. I feel we would help to solve (as a society) so many more problems if we tried to sort out some of these basics. So many women and children (in particular) seem to have been failed by the system.

What really saddens me is that I am sure our government is not really looking for ways to improve it (just to save money) and if they do look to improve it they will probably not take into consideration the voices of those involved (at all levels) or find a way of discovering best practice. There must be many countries which have had cheqeured pasts as Meita mentions (Australia etc as well) but what about counteries that have a good balance, that find the right way forward in terms of protection, early intervention to help, support, communication etc? I know what one person would call good another would not but is there any yard stick for measuring which systems have dealt with people really well??

[Italiangreyhound]

....bad relationships with men. not ....bad relationships with me!

[ghostinthecanvas]

I think I might be in the good group? WooHoo. With a foot in the naughty group as I have a spare room? What is the deal with the spare room?
We are definately in a flawed system. I agree Italiangreyhound that early intervention, support etc is lacking. It is such a huge problem though. The system has evolved into what it is without any real direction. There is a pervasive mistrust/blame of social services that prevent early problems being detected. Support? Well, that is a whole way of thinking that needs changed. There is a culture where social services blame/mistrust the parents and so, the dance continues.
Somethings are improving though. Our council has a support system in place where support workers come and help overwhelmed parents. The parents have to want the help though.........and so it continues.
The press aren't helping anything with all the sensationalist crap they write. It is very, very damaging. It always surprises me how readily the written word is believed. I haven't read a newspaper properly for 20 years and have recently been so frustrated with sensationalist, biased reporting on the tv news programmes. There seems to be a requirement to big up every single news item and god help us all when they get their teeth into an emotive subject like children. Depressing.
My children went to school today walking like penguins. No idea why and I know they will do it EVERY morning from now on as it made me laugh.

[MissFenella]

Just popping in to pump my fist in solidarity.

[oldnewmummy]

I've read most of these threads and got thoroughly wound-up even though I'm a bit sheltered from these real life experiences in that I live in a different country and adopted in a different system.

You ladies are awesome, and not just because you've adopted. You are intelligent, compassionate, witty and erudite. (Or, of course, it's all a bloody good act and you're a bunch of psychopaths .

And Spero: respect!

[booksshoescats]

Another non-adoptive parent here - I hope you won't mind me sticking my oar in. I think you're all brilliant - I lurk a lot on this board, and have ventured on to post a question in the past. From researching adoption and my interest in child development (because I hope that one day we will be in a position to adopt) I have learned so much about parenting from an amazing community (here and elsewhere) of adoptive parents, which I believe has helped me to be a better parent to my (biological) DD.

I have been very angry on your behalf about some of the attitudes I've seen around the Finding Mum and Dad threads and btl comments elsewhere, and I just wanted you to know that lots of people admire and support you.

[Shockers]

I'm so glad we've been busy and I haven't seen any of those threads. If I'd have heard of someone with a spare room wanting to take on a child, I'd have happily paid DD's bus fare to them.
Yes, a spare room is all you need to parent a child with attachment disorder and FAS, who has had to cope with the inevitable disruption that Christmas (and a birthday two days before) brings to her routine. I love her to bits, but boy is she hard work at the moment! I've just come off the phone to her Headteacher who tells me school is struggling to cope with her "off the scale behaviour" at the moment too.

I'm a very 'bad' adopter ( fell in love with the baby we fostered from birth) and a 'good' one also... wouldn't take him without his birth sister, who was in another placement. Joking aside, I wouldn't be without either of them.

to zoo and sm.

[Happiestinwellybobs]

to zoo and SM too. I totally agree with Stumbled in that I'm writing my letter to DD's birth parents. Last time it all felt quite stilted and I wasn't sure what to put.

SM. I have read your comments on various threads with interest. Whilst DD did not come to me in the same circumstances, I feel able to empathise with her BM much more having read your point of view. And whilst she is not willing/able to participate in contact letters, I do hope that should she receive my letter, it will help her in some small way to realise that DD is happy, thriving and loved.

I have written about the fact that we talk about DD's adoption with her - something I would never have thought to do had it not been for you. And hopefully her BM will realise that she has not been wiped from DD's history. So thank you for being so honest.

[herladyship]

I'm not an adoptive parent but it's something I'm considering & a close friend of mine has 3 adopted children

I can't believe some of the views posted on the other threads (mainly by people with zero experience or empathy)

I didn't watch the TV show that sparked much of the debate... not sure if I want to see it or not now!

and to anyone who has been upset by the ignorant comments

[Shockers]

I've just read a few of the posts on the Finding Mum and Dad thread. I didn't see the programme, but I have heard of those parties.

Our children's SW approached 10 couples about my children... they all said no.

We had asked from the start if they would consider us as adoptive parents for them, but were told that they must be matched with families already approved for adoption (who couldn't have children naturally, as DS was still a baby).

If those couples hadn't been honest about their limits regarding DD, our children wouldn't be with us now... 13 years on. I joked about sending her off on the bus in my previous post, but we love our children dearly and are right for them. I realise that it doesn't always work out so well though.

I know of a sibling group who were adopted, then the adoption failed. The emotional damage to those children is still very evident five years later, in a settled placement.

[fasparent]

We have 10 children 8 Adopted two SGO's ALL have contact or are in contact with BP's and Some with Grandparents , Unsupervised these are or were called Open Adoptions in most cases it was our suggestion that contact , would be included in proceedings all party's have played ball this has given us and the children the opportunity too extend contact , they have best of all worlds and a additional large extended family there are ups and downs as in any family. Some now have family's of their own,

[RudolphLovesoftplay]

Oh dear, I am proper "bad" adopter:

1. we have a spare room
   
2. we adopted white, blond haired, blue eyed children
   
3. they were really young when we adopted them
   
   On the other hand.....
   
4. they are boys
   
5. they are full blood siblings that we adopted together
   
6. we "chose" them from an event not dissimilar to the one shown on TV, but the children weren't actually present.
   
7. the oldest has big problems with behaviour and learning at school.
   
   Do they balance out???

[ghostinthecanvas]

Mmm. I still have a spare room....One more please! Maybe 2. Gotta be cute. Does that sound right? Though actually I do sometimes think we could do emergency fostering......
Seriously though, fas I was wondering about increased contact birth dad. I was interested to see what you wrote. Can I ask for him to be more included? As we are finalising everything my social worker says that it would be thought strange to want him in their lives more?

[Kewcumber]

I am on the bad list fpr so many reasons...

Single adopter who did so ONLY because I wanted to. (bad adopter)
Adopted from a different country (bad bad adopter)
DS was young, just under 1 and ridiculously cute (bad bad BAD adopter)

On the other hand...

I don't have a spare room anymore (bad bad BAD adopter)
DS was 26 weeks premature with a query cerebral palsy diagnosis and hadn't been considered by anyone else in 5 months of being available (bad bad BAD adopter)
I "rescued" him from a overseas orphanage (bad bad BAD adopter)

Ooh looky there, I'm actually just an adopter!

I'm actually getting to quite relish being the bad guy for a change instead of being heroic or brave.

[Kewcumber]

And if you only know knew how often I'd had to preview that message to get the crossings out to work (and btw thay don't work with bolding) then you with know with certainty that one thing adopters are is bloody determined!

Unlike the "oh they're so cute and I have a spare room" brigade who then want to stone adopters for not being perfect.

[weregoingtothezoo]

Stumbled and wellybobs I'm really touched that you feel a bit differently about writing contact letters. I can't "make" DD's parents write to me but if I can improve the situation for someone else then I'm happy.

It's been tough this week because no-one's mentioned it to me. DH has been turning the TV off, and I've seen a few friends who have sort of said "is there anything else bothering you??" I was sat here sobbing the other night when I posted and the bits I've read have made me so angry - I think when Kew wrote that adoption break down is equivalent to birth parents having to agree to their children being in care that really struck a chord with me - it is awful, both of those things are awful, to come to the end of yourself and fail, and the judgement is there for both and this run of judgement for adoption breakdown is just an extension of the vitriol birth parents get all the time. And breathe, too long a sentence.

I also feel strongly about the "grab your child(ren) and run" philosophy because I thought that, felt it from the bottom of my heart, the urge to run, and hide. I have a good second language - could I have made it abroad somewhere? But I didn't I stayed to face things, to do everything in my power to get better for my DD. And told the SW when DD's school let her go with me unsupervised when it wasn't allowed. Doing the right thing is bloody hard enough without idiots saying well if you really loved her you'd have grabbed her and run.

Sorry for another complaining post from me - I am positive most of the time, I pray for DD and her new family daily, I long most of all for her to be happy and settled and free from uncertainty and pain.

[holycowwhatnow]

I'm a very bad adopter becasue I adopted the most beautiful blonde haired brown eyed girl on the planet. And I didn't wait politely to be referred a child like I was supposed to do- I actively campaigned to adopt her having seen a 'promo' video of her on a Russian adoption site. And what's more, I don't give a damn.

Horrible what's going on at the moment. They should all have a taste of what life is like in Ireland for a child in care. We were respite carers for a child - now adult- in care for 10 years who had the constant threat of being given up by her foster carers all her life. She was never ever going to be allowed back to her BM -removed at 8 months due to total emotional neglect with lifelong brain damage as a result- but could never be adopted because BM would not consent. So wrong on so many levels. Is this what people want for these children? And she's one of the 'lucky' ones who only had 2 (not very good) foster placements.

[Kewcumber]

zoo - complaining posts are allowed in the refuge. Only posts banned are judgey posts from people keen to tell us what they would do in our situation.

Yeah right

[Italiangreyhound]

weregoingtothezoo I pray you may get letters some day. Maybe some brave film maker will make a documentary about contact letters and the adoptive parents will see it! There is always hope. You sound a wonderful person, caring and honest. I know these are only tiny posts and I don't know you at all but I feel privilaged that through the power of the internet we can connect to each others stories. I hope thinking of you will make me a better parent when we adopt.