Adoption and fostering - the government would like to hear your views

[KatieMumsnet]

Following on from yesterday's webchat on adoption with Oona King and Jeffrey Coleman, we've been asked by No.10 to find out a bit more about your thoughts on adoption and fostering.

This isn't a formal consultation, but a 'national conversation' that will be used to gather views for the policy people at the Department for Education and is party of a wider programme of activities for the national Give a Child a Home campaign.

Please feel free to post your thoughts on any issue relating to adoption or fostering, but in particular we've been asked about the following questions:

• What more might be done to help speed up the adoption process for babies in the care system?

• How might potential adopters and foster carers be matched with children more quickly?

• How could support for foster carers better reflect and support the valuable work they do?

• How can we improve the quality of support provided in children's homes?

• How might foster or adoption placements be made more stable? For example, use of respite care.

• Leaving care can feel like a cliff edge for young people. What might a better package of support for care leavers look like?

Many thanks

MNHQ

MrPetition have just signed the petition and will pass the link on. Good luck with your work on this.

MrPetition, have also signed and put on Facebook
Thanks

*What more might be done to help speed up the adoption process for babies in the care system?

Faster processing of potential parents will mean that looked after children will not have to wait to be matched to suitable families.

It will mean that parents could face a longer wait for the right child. This would not be an issue as long as it is made clear.

Centralisation of the matching process would of course give a greater volume of parents and children but would need properly resourced administration.

• How might potential adopters and foster carers be matched with children more quickly?

I think the matching process is one of the areas where effciencies of time should not be sought.

The process pre matching seems to be where time is wasted and progression slow. Generally the child as ?customer is not at the centre of activity, and the system seems to be process focussed.

A ?lean? evaluation of the end to end activity of child placement would identify waste, over processing and time delay saving costs and resources.

I don't think the assessment process of potential adopters and foster carers should be made any quicker. It needs to be in depth and detailed. There are certain parts of the assessment which don't seem to hold any relevance and could be cut (such as contacting previous partners from such a long time ago)

However, babies need to be with their primary care giver as soon as possible after birth. If older children are removed from their homes, they too need to settle much more quickly than they are. There's too much 'passing around' going on in foster care and a lack of stability. To make a child wait until they're 1-3 yrs when it is clear from the offset parents aren't suitable is extremely damaging. The adoptions need to be passed much more quickly in court so that a child can establish an attachment and settle earlier.

I honestly don't see why, if a baby is removed at birth, they can't be adopted by the time they're 2/3 months old. This gives several weeks for maybe further assessment of birth parents, a final decision to be made - and then it should be fast tracked through court.

Fostering and adoption would be far less damaging to children should they be in a permanent placement quickly.

Birth parents are also allowed to mess around far too much. I knew of a case where both parents refused assessment and refused contact for 6 months - and yet were still allowed to contest in court and make requests for contact... which was agreed. Absolutely ridiculous in my opinion and damaging to the childs emotional wellbeing having to be moved from foster care to a permanent placement at a later stage. Birth parents should not have the right to do this.

Thanks so much for all your thoughtful contributions to the thread. Just popping back to let you know that if you'd like to help out with a spot of fundraising for the British Association for Adoption and Fostering, and can get into central London Town, LK Bennett are hosting a special discount evening in their Covent Garden branch, this coming Thursday.

You can browse their Christmassy outfits and shoes, buy at a 10% discount, and BAAF will receive a donation of 10% on every sale. LK Bennett are providing the bubbly, and there's a goody bag for everyone who makes a purchase - as well as a rather fab raffle, where you could win an Andrew Barton haircut worth (an eye-watering) £300!

The event is free to attend but you need to book - so do email [email protected] if you'd like to get your name on the guest list.

MNHQ x

Mine is a bit of a rant I am afraid. DH and I went through 18 months worth of full assessments and courses and were eventually registered to take up to 3 children aged between 3-10 as foster carers. We initially asked for respite placements as we both worked full time. We were open from the start about this as we desperately wanted to try and keep childen with their families when possible.

Neither of us had children and we were assessed as suitable for 3 year olds and above as DH was worried about the childen not being able to communicate (he had little experience of children). We were not assessed as suitable for children over 10 as I am small and the thought of violence in the home with a large 13 year old was considered too difficult.

We were offered severely disabled children with no speech or communication and no payments (we were not doing it for the money, but really, to ask the parents for cash to take their children to the zoo, which is what was suggested, is just too much to stomach) and once we were phoned up to see if we could house a 14 year old arsonist who had been kicked out of her home for fire setting (for the 3rd time) as an emergency placement.

We then got a letter to tell us that our area had stopped offering respite care.

A year or so later we moved only 20 miles away, but to a new county. We were told we had to be reassessed all over again (we had only been assessed 12 months previosuly). We complained, appealed and then left it. I had my own child and despite constantly chasing people to see what the position was they eventually took us off the register due to "lack of communication" [hmmm]

I was, and still am disgusted at the waste of resources thrown our way for nothing. DH and I are both lawyers, with enough money to be able to take these children out and about, no sniff of trouble, lots of energy and enthusiasm, and yet we were ignored as foster carers - we considered going to the press as most of society would look at us and consider us as "perfect" foster carers (i am not boasting, though it sounds like it, i am trying badly to explain myself) but we figured it would not only look bad on our jobs, but wouldnt help in the long run, and would leave us looking undignified. So we gave up fighting.

We will not go through that proces again, it was futile. We were just figures on a piece of paper to justify someones job.

The sad fact is many many of the really good people in SS are leaving because its such a scary place to work. They are so terribly over stretched and the culture is so blameful (ie even although problems are clearly because of over-stretching and underfunding, if something goes wrong an individual is named and shamed rather than the government looking at the very real impossibility of doing the job with the lack of resourses).
I have a very good friend who was at SM level in SS, and has always felt strongly about the need for the good people to stay in public sector. He just gave up and left, as he has watched good people get sacked one after another because of the blame culture. He has repeatedly written and commented on the impossibility of the task, but nothing changed, and the situation was unsafe for the children in care and the staff.
The SS in question is now being run by mainly agency staff being payed a huge rate to do the job not nearly as well as it was being done. What a shameful waste. He now does consultancy (privately) for SS, and is saddened by the degree of fear and stress felt by staff. How can anyone work to safeguard children in these conditions? Its just wrong. The government needs to change this culture, value its staff, value the training and the time off of its staff (my friend worked at least 65hr weeks and was constantly on call, often still going through email at 3am, in case something was missed about a child protection issue), and make them feel safe.
It must be clear to all that for an organization to 'hold' itself and the safety of its clients it must feel safe and valued and 'held' by those in power.... read you Isabelle Menzies Lyth (spelling)? on the subject, its basic stuff, and the government is failing dismally at it (and needs to take the responsibility). Get rid of the culture of blame, and create one of valuing the workforce, and see what happens. Let people work humane hours and see what happens. Train people well, and see what happens. Trust experienced staff to make judgements, and see what happens. The constant covering of backs is cowardly and unhelpful, set the example you would have us follow, be held responsible and do the right thing by these kids that are all of our responsibility. Its time for brave and big changes, and a caring nurturing example to be set.

*What more might be done to help speed up the adoption process for babies in the care system?

As an example, our current placement will more than likely be adopted. The LA authority panel meets at the end of January to "release" the child for adoption, we then have to wait two months for a court hearing which, in essence, does exactly the same thing.

Only once the court hearing has taken place can matching begin. These extra two months seem, to us, completely pointless.
I know that there are legal reasons why they are currently necessary, but that needs to change!

• What more might be done to help speed up the adoption process for babies in the care system?

Babies should be placed immediately wiith foster carers who want to adopt and accept the risk of child going home.

• How might potential adopters and foster carers be matched with children more quickly?

Attach

• How could support for foster carers better reflect and support the valuable work they do?

Provision made to allow them to feel able to support the child they are caring for,

• How can we improve the quality of support provided in children's homes?

Smaller groups of children, family sized house based system (mentoring for children, high expectations for them, easier access to CAMHS etc

• How might foster or adoption placements be made more stable? For example, use of respite care.

Better understanding of child development for carers, easier to access support that does not involve lengthy assessment

• Leaving care can feel like a cliff edge for young people. What might a better package of support for care leavers look like?

Having been in a placeemnet which supports learning living skills and which promotes self esteem, having someone to call at night time / weekend when they need someone

Our DD was adopted at 13 months when it was probably obvious much earlier that BM was not going to be able to look after her. She was given a chance and made several visits to the foster carers but just couldn't get her act together. There should have been parallell planning put in place ie the search and court proceedings got ready to go as soon as it was evident she was going to fail - not to take six months after she had failed. That would cost but the price is paid by a small babay in terms of attachment.

Our DDs elder birth sibling was adopted at six months - he's older and she never tried with him.

Adopted children need much better post adoption support. there are no romantic orphans - these children all have baggage - someof it is just better hidden. Post adoption support is hit and miss at the moment. One thing is to ensure they are treated the same for school applications as looked after children. Change is especially challenging for our children but we get no special consideration. Often serious problems only emerge in the teenage years and there may be inadequate or unknown support there.

I would like the Government to publish numbers as to how many children were adopted from Asia and other countries by British couples over the past 5 years. I would also like this number broken down into how many non-resident UK couples/ parents adopted from and are living overseas. I live in Asia and I can tell you that the number is in the thousands because it is near on impossible to adopt from the UK. In comparison you would not believe how easy it is to adopt in Asia. I know of many cases where the couple has filled out the forms in the latter half of one week and received the baby from an agency early the following week, with checks happening later. This is even still happening with children from unapproved countries. With this in mind, is it any wonder why there are so many children in UK homes waiting for a loving family?

Adoption from the UK also needs to be made simpler for UK nationals living overseas.

Controversial - they do publish numbers of UK residents adopting from overseas, its on the DCFS website by country. From memory its about 200 childrne worldwide every year so I don't see how it can be 1000's from Asia alone. If you don't have a certificate of eligibility from DCFS (which you get by going through the UK home study system) you shouldn't be able to get a visa for the child to enter the Uk without it.

If its people who are not resident in the UK and have no immediate plans to return to the UK, then I'm not sure how the UK government can intervene (or even monitor) if they are sticking within the rules of the country they are in and are resident there.

There aren't loads of babies in the UK system and I can't imagine someone living overseas is going to jump through the kind of hoops you need to in the UK to get an older child and would question whether for most childrne coming out of the system in the Uk whether an immediate move overseas would be in their best interests. Very young children who would transition more easily are in short supply (if you excuse the phrase) with more parents available than babies and those who could not even conside mainaining contact with birth paretns would probably be lower down the list when it came to matching.

If you really know of thousands of UK couples adopting overseas you really have a duty to discuss this with the embassy or consulate.

A couple of thoughts

• A single friend of mine in her 40's (No DCs ) has lots of experience as a nanny.

Her Mum was a foster carer. She has talked with me about fostering or possibly adopting. But she only has a small, rented place for herself. She is of the belief that in order to be accepted as a foster carer she would have to be able to provide a room. Obviously accommodation would need to be looked at if she were to foster. But surely what she has to offer as an individual and potential carer are really what matters most. I feel she, and others like her, need the opportunity to talk through the possibilities with appropriate fostering facilitators/ organisers.

• I feel I would be more ready to consider fostering than my DH. Perhaps more needs to be done to address men when raising awareness around fostering.

• Even though I feel that I'm doing a pretty good job really raising the DCs

( they seem to be growing up as pretty great kids even though I sometimes doubt my methods )

• I would be very nervous about going through an inspection process. I feel I'd have to keep a much tidier house for one thing. I don't know how true this is, but suspect I'm not completely wrong.

• We live in a 3 bed house. There's plenty of room really. The DCs have a bedroom each now, but I've heard a fostered child wouldn't be able to share with another child.

This seems a bit strict to me, and wrong priorities really. I'm sure there could be a wee girl somewhere who'd be much happier growing up sharing a room with DD than in a children's home somewhere ( Just as an example )

• I do feel my motives would be questioned. Whereas most of us that might offer to foster or adopt would just be trying to offer what we can to others in need.

Juggling, I'm actually not sure I agree with you about the room. Most agencies stipulate that fostered and adopted children need their own room (though they can and do make exceptions: we were approved to adopt when living with our birth child in a 2 bed flat). This is because, as a foster carer, you will be expected to take into your home children who desperately need a safe space of their own - somewhere they can withdraw to, where they don't have to negotiate space or toys with another child. They may be angry and emotional, and you wouldn't necessarily want your birth children to have to cope with that 24/7. Some will have been sexually abused (you may not be told of this) and there may be a risk to any other children in their room at night.

I think it is intrinsic to fostering and adoption that you have to accept you will be questioned and investigated. It's not pleasant, but it is much easier if you accept the need for it.

Oh, and your friend CAN talk through the possibilities with appropriate fostering organisers. She just has to ring her local authority

my friends adopted two siblings (bio) - two rooms were absolutely essential to even attempt to keep the younger one safe. Even then and with locks it was a 24 hr job

I just feel it should be more about the relationships than about the accommodation ! Look at each situation individually. But fair enough, many fostered children may need a room of their own I guess. Just think it's a shame if this means a loving family interested in fostering wouldn't be able to go ahead.

I am not sure which question this falls under, but it makes no sense to me that there is such a large difference between Statutory Maternity Pay and Statutory Adoption Pay. This is outright discrimination against adoptive parents and families. Why should birth mothers get so much more than adoptive mothers? 90% of your full salary for 6 weeks. Boggles the mind.

Hi there, I work for the UK's children's charity, TACT Fostering and Adoption, as well as providing loving homes for children in care, we also campaign on their behalf. Due to the recent attention adoption has gained in the media during National Adoption Week, we have written a briefing which we're going to present in Parliament showing problems and some of the explanations behind why the system is as it is today and what needs to be improved and moved forward to make sure the system gets better. Have a read through our briefing: bit.ly/tTmf9t and other briefings and policy on both adoption and fostering can be found here: bit.ly/s7LCFP.

Hi TACT - One more thing I think perhaps there could be less of a sharp division between fostering and adoption in everyone's minds and in practice.
Some foster carers may go on to adopt a child once they have become part of their family. Obviously everyone's different. Generally I feel there could be more looking at each relationship and family as unique !

I have fostered with my husband for over eight years, over 14 children have passed through our doors during that time. Some short stay, some emergency, some long term, and yes unfortunately we have experienced placement breakdowns during this time. I teach the national minimum standards to new carers within my local authority and often the main topic of conversation is lack of support !!! I have approached my local authority numerous times about how we can best support carers. Training is one large area, not just the usual 'you have a difficult child, this is why they are difficult!'. it really doesn't help, I fully understand why these very vulnerable children can be challenging, what we need is practical help to deal with it. Yes respite can help, it gives the carer and their family a break, but when the child returns so do the issues! I had to go hunting for training that I thought would help the child we had in place, it actually helped the whole family. You can look in the past, and pick it all apart event by event but will that actually help the placement. The social workers are under pressure and really overstretched, I do feel really strongly that most local authorities do not use the vast experience their foster carers have. Believe it or not most of us had a life before fostering, we had careers......teachers, police officers, nursery nurses, prison wardens, youth offending workers, court officials as well as parents. We are a very under used resource as far as training and support for other carers. We are a 'funny breed' and are much more likely to accept help and support from another carer who know what it's like to be in the 'firing line' 24/7, as opposed to someone who 'clocks off' at five o'clock on a Friday night and closes the door. Please feel free to contact me if I can offer any support, advice or just someone to 'lean on'.

Hi "JugglingWithGoldandMyrhh"

We try to obviously join the two. Some of our foster carers do go on to adopt some of the children or young person they look after. One of them is actually very active on our Facebook page so it's always nice to hear her news as she currently has one or two foster children and has adopted one child. She has a full house!

However, even if fostering and adoption have similarities, it has to be treated differently. Fostering is a professional career and a passion, the other is becoming a parent, probably a passion too. Some few children won't be suitable for adoption because of different circumstances, others will be perfect. As an adoption and fostering charity, we are always very happy when we place a child for adoption, but it is the same when we place a chil in a loving foster home. Adoption's not always the best solution.

Hello, I am at the very early stages of adoption. I have my very first 3 hour meeting at the end of April. I am trying to adopt as a single parent. Please can anyone help me with what to expect. I am so worried they will no except me due to financial I have my own home pay a mortgage but will have to go to part time if I was successful.. Any help would be great. Thanks A :o

Andie you'll probably get a better response to your question if you post this as a new thread.

When you say early stages, is this a preliminary home visit before formal application and prep group?

With regards to home visits,personally i found it annoying to be asked the same questions again and to have the same level of intensive questionning when we adopted for second time.
I feel it was totally unnecessary and could be speeded up.
Another thing that really needs an overhall is how LA decides who is "fit" to parent and who is turned away.My GPs adopted my uncle now 50 and they smoked but outdoors.They would probably be excluded now.The criteria needs a commmon sense approach NOT a PC one!