Male academics with wives/partners who don't work. Anyone else noticed this?

[Eglantiny]

First, I'll start with an apology
I'm not generalizing to all male academics. I'm sure there are some good ones out there.
And I'm not intending any shade on the women I'm talking about at all.

But I'm getting increasingly frustrated with male academics who have female wives/partners who either don't work, or who work in "non-professional" jobs.

I've noticed a few things about these men.
Firstly, they have high expectations of what an academic career should look like, and/or what's a reasonable set of outputs over a particular period of time.
I think this is simply because they have more time and headspace for actually getting stuff done because they've delegate life admin and responsibility to someone else.

Secondly, they don't give much of a shit about teaching and measure academic success on research alone.
I think this is because teaching relies on soft-skills, organisation, relationships etc. which they don't value or excel at, so assume isn't important.

Thirdly, they surround themselves with other odious men with similar approaches to life and academia.
I think this is partly affinity (we all want to be around people similar to us) but also because these men manufacture time/space to build networks that exclude others - after-work drinks, evening seminars, conference events etc.

Fourthly, they have a strange way of working with women. It's hard to pinpoint exactly but I find they only tend to work with women who are either super-big-time professors or early-career researchers.
I'm not too sure what my theory is for this. Maybe they don't see women as their professional equals. I think they work with big-time professors who can offer them something, and ECRs who they can be in charge of.

Fifthly, this only really applies to the social sciences disciplines but these men don't actually do much empirical research with people. They are good at spouting theory and at running quantitative models, but they do much less human data collection.
I think this is because human data collection relies on soft-skills which they don't have and don't value. They see theorizing and number-crunching as 'proper' academic research. I do also think some of them are quite insecure about being social science academics and try to get close to STEM-type methods.

Has anyone else noticed this ?

There's quite a lot of these men in my Department - RG, social sciences - and I just find them generally tiresome to deal with.

It's the same in many professions, unfortunately. My world is law and it is the same with senior men with lots of home support and minimal involvement in child rearing/caring for family members who are at the top of the tree and shaping the job around their lifestyle. The world is designed by men, for men. It's shit.

My academic DH has never pulled his weight with the DC. He literally couldn't have a job in academia and do so. If he did, he'd be so compromised he would never get funding and would have left long long ago. I wanted kids and knew this so I was prepared to have a job not a career to facilitate having a family. He does recognise it though - I wouldn't be with him otherwise. We've always paid into a pension for me far beyond my earnings and he does know that woman staff are disadvantaged to the point of, well, not being there (he's STEM). The only woman staff are older, don't really know the meaning of this, could be fluke or maybe easier (in terms of balancing with family) in the past to get a permanent job?

I agree with other posters that this situation does occur in many other areas too e.g. law. The difference is that many of these areas are far better paid than early stage academic careers so it’s possible to outsource a lot of things - e.g. full-time nanny/housekeeper etc.

I know far more couples where both partners are at equal levels of seniority in areas like law and banking than in academia. The only couple I know who are both professors in their respective academic fields and have children had her mother live with them for 10 years doing nearly all the housework and childcare for free.

Most other couples I know in academia who also have children have one partner (not always the woman) doing the brunt of the family stuff and their career has suffered as a result. Though it was usually by mutual agreement for it to be that way rather than being forced to take a back seat.

It's very difficult, if not completely impossible, to advance in academia without a SAHP to take up all the life chores.

In all departments where I have worked (STEM discipline, research intensive universities) there have been senior female professors with children, without SAHPs to help them. High achievers, but also reflecting better management practices.

Good point. The pay is a huge factor. Per hour, I actually out-earned my DH until very recently. We could not afford to outsource anything at all. His first 5 years or so academic salary was lower than his salary pre-PhD.

@newstart1234 missing the point entirely. But you lose the tax relief on anything you pay into your pension above 100% of your annual salary.

For career orientated woman, an DH wanting to be a research academic would be a total non-starter. I'm genuinely shocked acfree123 that you know of any engaged, hand-on parent can build a career in academia without family help. Perhaps those without a SAHP have another family member to help out. How do they manage conferences? I know that you don't have to go, but even outside these, I'm not sure it's a case of time management and productivity - there is just more than 40 hours work per week, and that is on top of the often short contracts and frequent moves that characterise early career research.

I'll look more into pensions now my career is more important to me and get it better on track, my DC are over 10 now. But my pension is not in the UK so the rules are probably different. We made pension contributions in our working country and UK private pension to maximise the tax benefits.

Not sure that I actually know of any male academics among my colleagues who have non-working/non-professional partners! Not unless they have very young kids and are pretty much still on maternity leave. I'm also seeing an increasing patter of shared parental leave between young academic. It isn't really possible to survive in my University city on just one academic salary! The last of that generation retired in the last few years, or are about to. Plus academics are very often married to other academics, or similar type people.

DH is a STEM academic, I'm a lecturer in the social sciences having career changed, we're both 39. He's a Reader, will likely be Prof in the next few years. He's very successful and has been all along. He did take a fellowship in the US in our early 30s which was tough but it was pre kids and was done consciously to allow us to settle at the end of it. I stayed home and built my career.

I career changed for the flexibility (and a change) a couple of years before the DC. Turns out I enjoy teaching (I'm on a teaching contract) and hate academic research, I'm doing the world's slowest PhD and, frankly, hate it. I'd be earning more in my previous job but I didn't enjoy it and it would've been tougher to juggle both with the kids. No family support nearby, so it's all on us.

So I do think it's possible, but it sure ain't easy, and you do need a certain amount of luck.

(Not a academic myself, but used to be professional services staff based in a faculty.)

Many of the male academics I came across were married to other female academics.... just an observation.

Perhaps those without a SAHP have another family member to help out. How do they manage conferences?

Neither I nor DP have ever had help from family as our families live in different countries. We alternate conferences, manage time carefully, work evenings etc. Both of us were professors before 40.

Wow, at the same university? That's certainly impressive! Did you climb the ranks together, or have to live apart/meet a bit older?

I have been married to a male academic for decades, never met any of those wiives you mentioned. I also have a career myself.
most academics I met are married to other academics.

Exactly this is my experience too. The OP’s post doesn’t resonate at all.

not an academic myself but married to a senior academic.

This is my experience too, and my peers are in their 50s and 60s.
The only professor I can think of who has a stay at home wife, is 90 next year.

I don't really understand this. I am a high-earning and successful academic, and my husband has also managed to develop a high-earning and successful career. We have two kids. Why on earth would we have needed family support? If I'm at a conference, my husband makes dinner and puts the kids to bed, etc. that week. If he is away on a business trip, I do this work. Otherwise we share. It's hardly rocket science. During the day, the kids are in school or after school club, and during the holidays, we use a mix of annual leave and holiday clubs. This is really very basic. It wouldn't really have helped my career to have had a SAHP (in fact, I would have hated it - I like an engaged and interesting partner).

You're in the minority - both high earning and and academic 😅 , but also (I assume) a woman. Well done of course. Probably as a result of good decision making and luck. Ime someone in the relationship always has to compromise and more than most areas in academia - the stats show this.

I'm a lone parent academic, and could only leave the country now the children are older. My friend is the same. We have both accelerated our careers once our children were older teens, worked well. But a lot of women academics have dropped out by then, which is why the % of women academics drops down each layer of the hierarchy you climb. At PhD level it's 50/50 or even tipped towards women, by Professor level it's in the low 20's. Or perhaps all those women PhDs didn't want to be Professors and the men did (not my own theory, anyway).

@newstart1234 I don’t agree - it’s a question of wanting to put the work in. We both have successful careers (one is an academic) we both travel internationally and have small children. We have no family nearby or that could help. Like PP we align diaries, and rely on nannies, babysitters, kids clubs, after school clubs etc we spend a lot of money on childcare but we value our careers.

Also, when women become professors they also get paid a few thousand less (less likely to negotiate, perhaps fewer grants)

@SoSad44 I can tell your other wage is not an academic one because you have nannies! That would eat up an entire lecturer's wage.

Lone parenting means one income, one set of grandparents to help out, total care responsibilities on one person. I have one academic wage in my household. International conferences have not been common these past few years (as well as Covid) but now the children are older, things are opening up again.

I'm glad I stuck through the difficult years now and I feel pleased in my department at least, that women are coming in, and being promoted, all the way up to the top. This wasn't the case 15 years ago, a lot has changed and is continuing to change.

I was thinking about this and realised that the male academics I’ve dealt with are either gay (the majority) or just as OP describes. I’ve never seen any of them take the day off work for school strikes or kids being unwell in the same way their female counterparts do. I never see them having the weeks shopping delivered to the department (there are female staff members who do this) and yet they are doting fathers who reference their fatherhood often in tutorials and seminars with students, especially mature students. 🤔 hmmm

People consistently underestimate the extent to which luck contributes to success.

Also mildly depressing to see woman beat down woman with HandScreen's SAHP are boring jibe 😒

I’ve never seen any of them take the day off work for school strikes or kids being unwell in the same way their female counterparts do.

Well you've clearly not met my dh or many of his peers then. I am talking about peers over decades, not some freak of luck currently.

I never see them having the weeks shopping delivered to the department (there are female staff members who do this)

I would consider that to be unprofessional and, well, just weird tbh. Why would you have your groceries delivered to work ?
Where I work you are regularly reminded not to have individual parcels delivered to work, let alone your week's shop.