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Original poster

Genuinely confused, what is the 'correct' term for someone with dark skin- black or coloured?

95 replies

ilikeyoursleeves · 07/06/2010 22:14

This is a genuine question as I really don't know what is 'PC' regards this. I was describing someone today and called them 'black' and someone said 'You can't say that, it's 'coloured''. To which I said that I was being in no way racist or whatever, it was just a description so they knew who I was talking about!

I am mixed race myself, and descibe myself as mixed race, and I am not racist in any way at all, although I do hate people describing me as 'different'

So just wondering what term I should be using and if we use the 'wrong' term does that insinuate that we are racist in some way? I hope not!

OP posts:
toccatanfudge · 07/06/2010 23:55

perhaps many in that community don't want it stopped. Certainly in some parts of the community there is a feeling that perhaps it's time it changed. But for many not at all.

The "middle ground" for coloureds in Zimbabwe politics meant that a huge community was formed that has thrived on, despite being now increasingly scattered around the globe.

When the majority of Zimbabwean Goffals/Coloureds no longer refer to themselves, and have great pride in, their heritage, and when the (Zim) census ceases to include coloured - then I shall re-educate my children so that they know that the coloured is offensive applies to all people.

MagalyZz · 07/06/2010 23:57

Scurry! it's quite clear what I'm saying. I'm not trying to say it.

dual heritage, mixed parentage! those are labels which aren't always the case? you get that right?

If skin is some where between black and white, and a person is not black, and not white, and not mixed race ......... then there is a label missing. Or at least there is since it was decided that coloured is unacceptable.

Iggisfulloftayto · 07/06/2010 23:58

At work (education) we'd use the phrase BME (Black & Minority Ethnic).
Would never use coloured, though lots of kids believe it to be more "polite" than black - but it's not, not in UK in 2010.
Magaly, I can't work out what type of person you are describing?

MagalyZz · 08/06/2010 00:02

Well I don't want to name the country my xmil was adopted from... It's a bit too identifying.

But in her eyes, and she is 65, she is coloured. NOW I won't, don't, haven't used the word coloured. It hasn't come out of my mouth, but she uses it to describe herself. And I know she would be offended by mixed race or dual parentage. I would be too, in her shoes. My parents come from towns 100 miles apart. Hers came from the same town!!! But people keep telling her she is mixed race not coloured.

scurryfunge · 08/06/2010 00:04

MagalyZz, the term coloured means not-white ...how offensive can you get to suggest that somethng that is not the norm is not white....you have "the white and then everyone else" category....it is outdated and people seem to have great difficulty with change...just because Zimbabweans may be complicit in racist terminology, doesn't mean it is right.

Iggisfulloftayto · 08/06/2010 00:10

If she had one white biological parent and one BME, then she would be of mixed race. Not that anyone needs to mention it, unless there's a relevant reason.
Of course an older person can't just completely alter their own self-identity, I don't think we're suggesting she should. I also don't see why the geography of her parents is relevant!
Black is often used with political (small p) connotations, rather than descriptive ones. In descriptive terms, I am pink (and a bit grey) but would tick a box on a form that said white.

MagalyZz · 08/06/2010 00:10

eh scurry, you're putting words into my mouth. I didn't suggest that everybody who isn't white isn't the norm.

If you read my posts properly you will see that it is my xmil, my children's grandma who is now left without a way to describe herself. I don't use the phrase coloured. I said my xmil does. I said she is baffled by the fact that the term she's used to describe herself all her life has now been declared 'unfit' and not replaced by a label she feels she can use.

Black means not white as well. Orange means not white. Mixed race means not white

hatwoman · 08/06/2010 00:13

people of colour (or, rather, color) is the term used in the US that in part, fills the gap to which some here have refered. it is used to describe all people who are not white (be they black, of mixed parentage, Chinese, Arab etc). The phrase was coined to reflect the commonality that all these groups experience racism and discrimination. in the UK BME is prefered - again because racism, discrimination etc is experience by plenty of people who would not identity themselves as black.

scurryfunge · 08/06/2010 00:14

Exactly, the term coloured means not white...the term suggests anything but the norm. Ahhhh! I give up.

Go and read the equal opportunites handbook,it makes intersting reading and may explain a few things, seriously.

MrsRhettButler · 08/06/2010 00:17

i get what magalyZz is saying, i have a friend who is black but her skin is like a mixed race person, very light, compared to her family who are very dark skin... she has no problem labeling herself black though, but people always think she mixed race

black and white comes in all different colours anyway, my dd is mixed race black/white but came out looking chinese!

MagalyZz · 08/06/2010 00:18

Right. Send me a copy and I'll give it to my 65 year old mother in law.

I'M the one who gives up. It's like talking to a policy booklet talking to you.

MagalyZz · 08/06/2010 00:18

ps, I'll be sure to tell her that she's wrong about being coloured, she's actually BLACK.

hatwoman · 08/06/2010 00:19

scurryfunge - people of colour was adopted precisely because "non-white" is negative(linguistically) and has connotations that white is the norm and then there is everyone else. however there is no denying that, when it comes to racism it is meaningful to disctinguish between "white" (don't, or very very rarely, experience racism) and "everyone else" (who do) - hence "people of colour" - linguistically it's a positive definition and it's a useful one - in that it defines/identifies a relevant/important group.

scurryfunge · 08/06/2010 00:20

Calm down, don't resort to silliness, it was a good debate.

scurryfunge · 08/06/2010 00:21

hatwoman, for the reasons you give, it is a very negative phrase

toccatanfudge · 08/06/2010 00:24

scurry - I think you are mistaking the American (and British term) Coloured - meaning anyone who isn't white.

For the Southern African term Coloured - which means a very specific race of people, not black, not asian, not white, but coloured.

I think we may have to agree to disagree on this one,

But so long as the Zimbabwean coloured community use the term coloured to describe themselves them my DS's will be taught that.

They know they don't call any other mixed raced (or nonwhite) child (or adult) coloured unless they're also part of the same worldwide community as they are, because it's offensive elsewhere in the world, and especially with the use of the term here in the UK for black people.

They know that they have to tick the "mixed race", or "White and Black African" boxes on forms,

I am not going to turn round now and tell them that coloured is offensive to everyone (because it isn't offensive to everyone that we meet) and a term that should never be used about other people regardless of cultural background while they are still going to be meeting people on an almost daily basis (I love my corner shop ) who refer to them as coloured, and when they see their Aunt and cousins who call them coloured.

Mixed race seems to be the most common term (although I could have sworn I heard a "half caste" in the playground the other day ) round here and that is what I use to describe other, ermm mixed race children who do not have the same culutural backgrond as my DS's.

I only wish we could have stayed in Zimbabwe so that they could have grown up and been part of that wonderful vibrant, community

(and then I wouldn't also have had the problem of everyone thinking DS1 is a Welshman because of his nickname which had no such connotations when we were 5000 away from the UK and choosing a name for our first child ........especially with me having a Welsh name as well )

MagalyZz · 08/06/2010 00:26

ok, I like a debate. But you're not hearing me. You're patronising me and telling me I'm offensive to suggest blah blah, something I didn't suggest.

I am seriously asking on her behalf really, because I think she is quite rightly baffled by it all.... what label should she use to describe herself!? One that is accurate. That's the answer I'm not getting here! It's the answer she's never got either. And that's why she's 'clung' to the description coloured.

MrsRhettButler · 08/06/2010 00:28

but what is her heritage magalyZz?

strandedatsea · 08/06/2010 00:29

I live in the Caribbean and here we say "black" "white" "light skinned" "red skinned" etc. There are a lot of descriptive words to describe skin colour because most non-caucasians basically have black hair and dark eyes so whereas in other countries you can use hair colour as a descriptor, it is harder here.

The americans are now using "people of color".

I wouldn't use the term "Caribbean" or "African" as those are both regions/continents and could be used to describe someone who is Hispanic white, Creole-speaking black, arabic etc etc etc. It would be like calling us all "Europeans" as opposed to white, black etc.

toccatanfudge · 08/06/2010 00:30

hehe scurry - you think my use of the word coloured about my children is bad...........what about DS1 who insists on using his shortened version of his name which has not very nice poem about him.............

I'm kind of hoping that as he gets a little older he'll start using either his full name or the really short version of his name rather than the one that he writes on everything now

strandedatsea · 08/06/2010 00:30

toccatafudge - I have relatives in S Africa and Zim so understand exactly what you are saying, fwiw

MagalyZz · 08/06/2010 00:31

She is British. The country she was adopted from is of no consequence to her. I could say the name of the country, and then you might say 'ah well that's the label then, she is *&%&%. But no she isn't. she has not been back to that country since she was a few months old, doesn't speak the language, and knows nobody there.

I think she will have to go and live in America and then she can describe herself as a british woman of colour.

scurryfunge · 08/06/2010 00:33

Thank you for acknowledging that it can be an offensive term -if you are explaining this selective terminology to a child and they understand that they are using an historical definition, then good for you.

Half Caste makes me cringe too.

I personally hate all the categorising as I never fit into any of the tick boxes on any forms....language changes thankfully and I think we should embrace all that is new and not get stuck in our ways. The previous generation will always be the most difficult to convince

Iggisfulloftayto · 08/06/2010 00:33

Magaly that's her nationality, not her ethnicity though.

toccatanfudge · 08/06/2010 00:36

yes it can be an offensive term - if used for ANY black person, or someone that isn't mixed race (european/southern african) heritage.

It's is NOT only a historical definition though - it's a currently used one, both by the community themselves, and then governments in those countries.