WWYD - Friend fraudulently claiming benefits

[BottleOfRum]

Imagine you have a friend - been in the same group of 6 best friends since high school. You see her weekly, you adore her children, you love her to bits.

She got pregnant quite young, early twenties, with a guy who disappeared. She got a council house, went on benefits. A few years later, she met a lovely guy, had two children with him and married him. He works full time, approx £25,000 a year. She's never worked. She never told the benefits office she got married or that she lives with her DH, and continued to claim that she lives alone with three DC.

Despite loving her dearly, I resent her large council house, and all the money she gets, as her husband's income is all disposable - he doesnt have to pay rent, bills, council tax etc.

She has said she will continue to claim benefits and not disclose about husband until she is able to get a job herself, when the youngest starts school (youngest is newborn, so will be claiming fraudulently for 5+ years minimum), as money would be tight if her benefits got taken away.

I so badly want to report her for benefit fraud, as I feel what she is doing is SO SO wrong. WWYD?

As long as you can handle it, report her & then support her - she is heading for so much more trouble if she gets found out 5yrs down the line. Luckily I've never been in this situation - it sounds like a huge moral dilemma

Fraud is fraud, she isn't doing this as she hasn't remembered to tell the office that actually I am now married and don't live alone and my dh earns a wage - she is doing all this on purpose to defraud me and you

to be blatant she is taking the piss out of yuo and me, whelst we work she is spending, being a sahm and all due to her cheating.

colditz is right

I wonder how you will be able to justify this to yourself afterwards. It is difficult to take the moral highground justification for reporting her if you are being sneaky and not telling her. You have to admit to yourself that you are doing it out of jealously.
If you are determined to do it then I would follow colditz's advice and send her an anonymous warning before you do it to give her a chance.
If you go through with this you have to be willing to bareface lie in when the endless speculation goes on as to who has reported her and perhaps see suspicion poured on other people - are you sure that you can handle that?

sorry lie not lie in - sleep deprived

Everyone is talking about fraud but as Fanjo said if you report her and act like a friend you are also a fraud. If it pisses you off tell her. I wouldn't report a loyal friend in a million years.

She will get caught eventually. You OWE it to her as a friend to stop her NOW, because the money they will make her pay back if she gets caught will be HUGE. We are talking about £15000 a year for every year she claimed fraudulently.

That's £75000 if she carries on until her youngest is five, and then gets caught.

It would ruin her. She would be paying it back for the rest of her life.

I'm not saying shop her because she's a bitch, I'm saying that you HAVE to make her stop, and if you can't, you HAVE to report her now so that she doesn't get reported by someone in 5 years time.

Eventually, one of the teachers will twig that X's parents are married and live together, but X gets free school dinners - and teachers don't earn very much, just enough to mean they don't get much help, and I would be resentful if I were them.....

Even now, if she stops claiming herself, surely the benefits agency will want to know the date of her marriage and will therefore find out that she has been committing fraud since that date?

Or is she claiming to be married but separated?

Even that doesn't make sense, surely the CSA would be claiming money back from her DH ?

And you say she has a newborn, surely the agencies want to know who the father of the child is and, again, the CSA would be after him?

"I wouldn't report a loyal friend in a million years."

neither would I.

What I would do is sit down with her and her dh (who might see sense faster?) and tell them what you have been told about her having to pay it back and risking imprisonment and that they will for sure get caught up with. They do not live outside the system, possibly also that people are idscussing them and their fraud (which is not a lie since we are doing it here).

did they marry overseas?

I would have to report it - to me if you know about a crime and you don't report it you are complicit in that crime and frankly I wouldn't want to be associated with stealing money.

That is money that pays for disabled kids to go on school buses, or for people who are homeless to get housing, or even for your kids to go to school. To just shrug and say 'none of my business' is impossible to condone.

You must report her. She's doing herself no favours. Chances are with a household income of £25K they'd get some benefits anyway. And what of the father of her first child, is he contributing anything?

In terms of your friendship, is a friendship based on mistrust and jealousy worth having? Frankly if she's making you feel this way, and she's one of six friends, well one less won't be that much of a problem will it? Yes your lives are intertwined blah blah blah, well she'll need someone to mind her kids while she goes to court to answer the charges.

And I wouldn't tell her I'd reported her either. Any number of people could have done this - if she's just had a baby, the hospital, the health visitor, her children's schools, colleagues of her husband, any number of people.

People do get to know who's on the fiddle and they quite often report it.

Look do it now before you chicken out. Here's the webpage you need: secure.dwp.gov.uk/benefitfraud/ or CAT me her details and I'll do it if you are feeling scared.

At the end of the day they WILL catch her as others have said, you are protecting her from a massive fine and paying back all the money.

You are being very brave and honourable to report her - she's diddling you, me and everyone else out of money the country cannot afford to spare. Do the right thing.

Do you think any of your other friends in the 'tightknit' group are unhappy with what your friend is doing?

Interesting that you feel they'd be angry with you for 'grassing' rather than angry with her for fraud.

Moral question aside, I honestly do not understand how this can happen.

Benefits are paid by Inland Revenue, so presumably the address would be a dead give away. Husband presumably pays tax so his employer would send his details to Inland Revenue....

I don't "understand" how it can happen either, I'm sure the system is meant to have all agencies talking to each other, but obviously the system has failed somehow, because it is happening. They got married in a Church wedding a couple of years back (in the UK), and never disclosed her marriage to a single agency. The husband keeps his bank statements, payslips etc all going to his parents house, so that they can claim to be separated if they ever do get caught (I think the fraud agency would see straight through this, they have one child, a marriage, then another (very recent) child, so it will be obvious they have been living together).

Colditz thank you do much for the idea of the anonymous note. That is exactly what I will do. And then I wont feel guilty (or like a fraud!) if I report her at a later date and never tell her it was me.

No idea about the CSA and the children - her husband is named on both children's birth certs, but AFAIK the CSA aren't involved in any way, and don't chase him for money?

Riven - its not jealousy that is making me report her. When she had her first child in her early twenties (to another man who disappeared and has no contact with my friend's daughter), she got a council house and all the relevant benefits. I was not jealous in the slightest because she was ENTITLED to these. She's not entitled any more, and that's my issue here.

Before you go sending notes around (and if you must do this post it and don't drop it round coz you know someone will see you) what do your mutual friends think of it all? I'd discuss it with them in round about terms.

But what if they all agree that the fraud is bad, but that 'grassing' on a friend is worse? (That is what I predict would happen). Then I can never report her, because it would be obvious it was me.

And for all those who suggest just talking to her and her DH, and letting them know that what they are doing is illegal and teh consequences if they are caught etc, they know this already, and they choose to claim fraudulently in spite of this, because they have an easier life style that way. If I thought she would be reasonable and open to discussion, I would discuss it with her. She wont be.

I suppose by reporting her, I'd be putting my morals before my loyalty, and I have to have a think about whats most important to me. I shall start with anonymous note and see where things progress from there.

oh god op what a dilemma! i like the note i dea too though.

if what is important to you is to not betray her then you have to get her (anon or ont) to declare the marriage. maybe her and her dh are just a bit naive and think that either they wont get caught or that if they have to pay back the money that they will just manage somehwow - maybe they cant fully conprehend what will happen. do they not understand that they could go to prison??

I don't think they are naive, this is a well-known con where the husband pretends he's living at his mothers. Presumably his mother is in on it as well. Its rather sordid and depressing because this couple and their grandma are all living a lie. Great for the children