religion in the work place wwyd?

[teafortwo]

My dh is a fairly quiet kinda guy. I would even go far as to say a bit shy.

He works with a team of eight people in a fairly specky job. His team are very well educated. Out of the eight of them, five are muslims. My dh and two other men are not.

Usually he enjoys his work and the team dynamics. However, for the past few weeks he keeps complaining to me that recently his days are constantly seasoned with Islam.

These are only two examples from the past two days so you can get an idea:

1)) He was getting on with his work when he was called over to another man's work station to be invited to show disgust at a negative image of a woman wearing a burka in the press.

2. He invited a team mate to "discuss this over coffee" only to have the business discussion come to an end because his friend wanted to tell him he couldn't have a coffee as he was fasting and went on to tell DH all the reasons behind this.

They are a wonderful crowed and dear friends of DH's. DH values them as really bright, fun and interesting people but these recent constant undercurrents of 'religion talk' and what is more treating their own opinions and beliefs as complete fact is really stressing DH out -especially coming from such brilliant minds (their jobs are basically to think outside the box)!

Yet, of course and most importantly, he has no desire to upset the usual positive office climate, loose dear friends or offend anyone.

So... I am interested because he keeps asking my advice and I just don't know...if you were him, what would you do, if anything at all?

i work in an organisation where political correctness is truly up there.

I find a double standard. It is totally fine to speak about /enquire/chat islam.

however christianity is openly mocked. I did a thread on it last year.

there was a departmental 'away' day where we had a quiz. This was a 'lets see how much we know about other religeons' kind of quiz and the Director said how ridiculous christianity was as she misinterpreted the immaculate conception ( DEC) and Jesus' birthday into a timeline of Jesus' conception > day of birth. It really was quite a rant that wouldn't have been acceptable had be been talking about Islam. I am certain that no such rant would have been tolerated.

i agree it should cut both ways, custy

don't see anything in what the OP has posted that reflects a culture where her DH feels intimidated or unable to discuss his own beliefs.

i should imagine the whole issue of minarets in switzerland has been mentioned and discussed in offices, homes, mum and baby groups all over the world in the past couple of days. by muslims and non muslims alike

it does not automatically mean those doing the discussing don't want to hear about christmas or chanuka

I don't really see this as anything to do with religion sorry except that he is making it that way

this sort of thing can happen in a different way at anytime

for instance my pa made cupcakes and brought them in and offered them around, of those she offered them to, 4 people said no; 1 fasting, 3 dieting
she took it harder from the dieting trio

from what you have said it would have been weirder also if the chap had showed him a woman without a burka on and said "ahhhhhhh an unclothed female face" discuss.

Just because he is in the religious minority does not mean that everything suddenly has a serious religious overtone
I find it odd that you went to try to find out more about Islam etc etc

Although perhaps I'm the odd one as this sort of thing would seriously go over my head whilst I would be trying to figure out if they were catholic or protestant muslims

also really who except ministers want to discuss religion in the workplace?

work is boring enough...

i agree the workplace is not really the place for discussion of religion. it could give the impression of a discriminatory environment (imagine if the situation was reversed)

i also would think the same if the environment was extremely laddish (for a woman). these things may not be discriminatory, but the appearances aren't good.

I think tbh that rants against a particular group (Christians/goths/students/whatever) are more to do with one person venting their irrational prejudice than anything else. I've been on the receiving end of that but I wouldn't say 'Atheists are bullied" even though one of my colleagues had a go (the fucker). It was just one person who saw a target and couldn't quite control himself. Quite sad really.

Thanks for all of your sensitive answers.

Over the past few weeks I have also asked him lots of the questions you have asked me.

My thoughts are so much clearer now I have discussed this with you lot.

I think:

1. DH is interested in the humanities. He finds discussions on politics, religion, geography and hisory interesting so to begin with he found it nice to be working amongst so many Muslims and invited them to share beliefs, ideas and concepts. Maybe they think he REALLY likes them telling him so much about Islam and don't realise he isn't specificly interested in that one topic!

2. There is a genuine friendship for example DH and I were the first people to see his office friend's much desired IVF twins because DH was on the list of the first people he wanted to phone to tell the good news to. DH likes all of the people he works with and cares about them and how they are percieved beyond the team. It worries him for example that the lady he works with is not always seen for her brains but her hijab (that she wears at lunchtime in the company canteen. Among 2,000 workers she is the only one who wears any kind of veil).

3. He grew up and we live in France where there isn't a 'jangle of religious metaphor' as Billy Bragg poetically described British childhood in French children's lives. I really notice that things that wash over me do bother him and our French friends too because religion, to them (because France is secular) is a very private thing.

4. DH spent lot of time in his teenage years visiting his Granny in Beirut and his young eyes winessed such horrific things in 1982 that one of the many mental scars it has left him with is a nervousness of people who seem too extreme in any belief. As, I think, Zadie Smith recently commented he also thinks "Certainty is a dangerous thing." The fact that sometimes one or two of them do utter things that to a man who grew up in a secular society sounds a bit extreme and too certain hits him on a deeper level than it would perhaps say average bloke from I don't know - Colchester IYSWIM?

5. I suppose it is always a bit annoying when someone you think is fab is completely different from you on one point e.g I have a friend that when I meet her for a lunch date she never wants to eat and chat just go shopping for really boring things which REALLY gets to me! I think to some extent this gripe is on this level too!

I agree with you lot! What he needs to do is play it cool. Be busy when discussions arise that he doesn't want to get involved in, encourage debate on other topics that interest him and others and find polite lines to explain "It's not my bag at all but if you're into that then that is your business." if he feels a bit in a corner and train his mind to not worry about it afterwards.

Thanks a lot!

what a weird answer teafortwo as Ronaldinhio would say

Ronaldinhio - I suppose all in all it was just to say that actually talking about this on mn has really helped me organise my thought process which is really useful. I can now see how this situation arose from both angles and what DH needs to do and what DH needs not to do to feel more relaxed at work again!

Thanks for your time!

glad we were helpful

and now the serious bit is over, can I ask if I was the only one singing 'Religion in the workplace, what'd you do?' to the tune of Cows in the Kitchen?

TBH... No... but I do rather like the idea of MrsBadger singing this for the next Mumsnet tv feature!!!! Is there a dance routine too?

Oooops - That should be "no I wasn't singing it..."

(I must stop MNing and doing seven things - As I do become Madame Typo!)

there is a dance, actually, but it is only performed at very specific times

namely when dd has weed in the potty...

!!!!

Well, after that MrsBadger I do suddenly regret e-mailing this thread to DH with subject as "A very interesting thread"!!!

Yet, I must admit, it is sounding even better in terms of the mn tv project!