WWYD re Challenging Inlaw Behaviour?

[CoffeeMum]

Please be gentle with me, this is my first ever Mumsnet post! - and apologies as it's quite a long one.

DH and I currently have a 19 month old DS, and I am also seven months pregnant. I have a demanding full time job and DH has an extremely intellectually and emotionally demanding full time job with long hours, working weekends etc.

His parents stayed this weekend, and treated our home like a hotel. They didn't so much as make a cup of tea or offer to change a nappy. They knew full well how hard DH has been working [12 days straight now, and long days at that] and they knew that not only am i fairly heavily pregant, but that I had also hurt my neck. They also saw me having to make work calls and write work emails while they were here.

The one gesture MIL made towards 'helping' was to bring a dirty cup through to our tiny kitchen, literally as DH was dishing up lunch. They do bring food and drink with them, but they like their food and drink [as do we, to be fair!] so it's a small gesture towards the vast amount of catering we do for them.

DH and I have been together nine years, and this has always been the dynamic when they have stayed, but it has become intolerable now that we have DS, and one on the way. I don't know if we will cope when DC2 arrives if they continue in this way. Another problem is that while they adore DS, they play with him very loudly for a great deal of time for the entire duration of their stay, to the point where it leaves your nerves jangling if you remain in the room. Because it's so noisy and grating, this playing with DS doesn't actually help in terms of reducing our workload.

We don't know what to do now. They [especially MIL] respond very badly to confrontation. Last Christmas, I snapped, and had a go at MIL, and she responded like a small child, sulked and demanded that FIL take her home immediately. It was so awful and tense that I felt compelled to apologise though my point was fair and valid. DH wants to confront them in a more measured way as he sees no way foward unless we do so. I am terrified that at the very most, confrontation will lead to out and out family feud, or at the very least, a tense 'treading on eggshells' environment that I will feel ill equipped to deal with with a 2 year old DS and a newborn baby.

Absolute dilemma. Should DH confront them, or are there any alternatives? Has anyone dealt successfully with similar? Are PIL actually being that unreasonable, or should we grit our teeth and bear it?

thanks if you've got this far!!

It is good to remember - you can't change other people - the only person you can change is yourself. So you have to find ways to reduce the impact of their behaviour/attitude (which is unlikely to change)on you. Once you approach it from that viewpoint, it becomes clearer. IYSWIM. This is why confrontation probably isn't a good idea.

3littlefrogs, I really like your way of seeing things and will no doubt be using it in other situations!

You have to tell them that the catering standard is not going to be what they like from now on. If they want everything home cooked, biscuits and cheese after dinner, constant drinks etc then they have two choices:
a)stay at home or
b)provide it themselves

As far as I am concerned, hospitality means that you provide a certain level of food, drink etc (and no expectation of it being tidied up by the guests) - NOT that you have to slave away to provide exactly what your guests might like if that makes life too hard.

I had to do this with FIL, who likes to eat exactly the same meal every Saturday and Sunday teatime - basically sandwiches and salad but every damn thing 'has' to be put on a separate plate and every potential sandwich filling laid out on the dining room table. And after all that effort, everyone has a cheese sandwich and a bit of lettuce. I told him last week that it makes too much washing up for me at the moment so here is a cheese sandwich and a smile!

How much do you help out when you stay with them?

3littlefrogs - i'm very much inclined to agree, and I am really trying to steer DH away from confrontation. I saw how badly MIL reacted to our one run-in, and I vowed I would never do it again! Hopefully I can get DH to read this whole thread and see what I mean. Maybe he just needs to accept that he can still love his parents and want to see them, but they can still drive him a bit mad, and family dynamics are such that time spent together will always be a bit gruelling. He's an idealistic sort though, and I admire that. Me, i'm becoming more jaded by the hour...

MaMight, we have cooked meals for them three times at their home. We also help ourselves to soft/booze drinks, and make our own hot drinks. We also clear plates through to the kitchen and load the dishwasher. We also generally demand a lower standard of catering, eg. toast okay for breakfast for us - they like egg and bacon, sandwich okay for lunch for us, they like homecooked two or three course lunch, or at the least soup and deli platter style lunch.

I'd've thought that relatives aren't really guests like other guests, are they?

I mean, especially if your hostess is heavily pg or a new mum, then you don't really expect her to wait on you hand and foot, do you? Parents of small dcs are always tired and need help! I'm amazed that you're not getting help from your visitors.

Have you tried asking politely for them to cast their eye about the room for empty mugs/glasses? Giving them a cloth and ask them to wipe the table after a meal? Say, "Oh would you mind just bringing in those plates for me?"

I don't go to people's houses without offering to help especially if I'm staying a few days. It's a lot to ask, to put people up imo.

Mucking in? To me, that's normal, polite, helpful behaviour. You wouldn't get away with not helping out at my house, my PILs, my mums or any of my friends houses because it's really not fair to expect to be waited on hand and foot.

For a couple of years, I'd actually just visit them more and try to avoid having them over until the intense, hardwork baby years are over.

ProvincialLady - very impressed at your bravery to tackle the situation! It sounds really quite similar, and part of me dreams of doing this. Just so scared of how they will react, and how this will affect DH.

How did your PIL react?

Its a tricky one.

Have just recently had dc3 and find that I do become very irrational/easily irritated by in-laws when pregnant.

My in-laws came to stay when I had dc3 and I simply abdicated all domestic responsibility to mil and she did a fab job. Worked much better than both of us being in the kitchen which just leads to tension.

Could you do that at all?

Also let them play with your ds and just go and have a bath/lay down/read a magazine then you don't get annoyed by them.

However all much easier now we're in a bigger house - was hellish when we were in a 2 bed cottage as all got on top of each other although they did stay at the local b&b then so some advantages .

Winky Winkola, well, that's kind of my view with family. My parents muck in because they spend alot of time with us, and they know we're pretty stretched. I would also ALWAYS offer to help, or actually help when visiting family and friends - especially those with young children or babies. I think that's why we're a bit gutted.

We are veering towards the visiting them rather than inviting them option actually. As it is, our flat will be far too small when DC2 arrives for us all anyway...might be the perfect excuse!

Traceybath, MIL doesn't even cook in own house - FIL does it all - but literally cannot imagine either taking on all duties at our house. Apart from anything else, you'd still have to clean before and after the visit, and make sure all the food and drink had been bought..

I hope you're right about it being easier in a bigger home. Hopefully in a couple of years when we're out of the flat and the intense baby years are over, we'll be better able to handle it all. Maybe biding our time is the answer?

I have to log off for a bit now, but thanks so much for all your advice so far. I will be back this evening to check in though!
Thanks again I feel calmer about it all simply from discussing it all here!

I also find laughter helps. So when mil picks up a biscuit and says 'is it bought or home made' I just laugh.

Also do let go on the cooking front - just do take-aways or M&S. Its hard as I'm a little bit of a control freak/perfectionist but does become easier.

It is the endless cups of tea that drive me mad though. But I'd perhaps jokingly suggest they make their own next time.

there are several issues really.

Firstly, I do agree with colditz that avoiding every food that potentially contains nuts (and lots of foods have "may contain nuts" on the packets) just in case, you are only going to increase your stress levels. IMO it would be helpful to establish at this point whether your ds has a nut alergy or not, that way you will know one way or the other whether to either tell your ILs that he has a nut alergy so not to give him certain foods, or be able to relax about leaving your ds with them. And you're going to have to find that out sooner or later anyway so now is as good a time as any.

Secondly, just because people expect certain meals at certain times and have these things in their own houses, doesn't mean that you have an obligation to live up to those expectations. What would happen if you didn't cook them breakfast? Just lay out cereal and toast and tell them to help themselves, ditto with lunch - some nice bread/rolls (bought from the local bakery), some cold meat, cheese and salad, and voila, lunch. If as guests in your house they don't have to help out, as guests in your house they equally don't get to demand a certain menu. Don't have a confrontation about it, just serve up what you like, they can either eat it, or go without.

Wrt the way they are with your ds, tbh I think you need to just let it go. I know it's hard when you have a young child and you want them to stick to a routine and people are upsetting it (been there, done that ), but in reality, playing riotously before bedtime really isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. So he'll go to bed a bit late, then hopefully he'll sleep a bit later, but if he doesn't he can just have a longer nap the next day. At least they're playing with him. .

You will have to accept some things with a smile. But maybe decide what things you feel can change - particularly with regards to what you yourself have to do - and change just one thing at a time rather than any huge changes.

If it was me I think I would do away with cooked breakfasts. Maybe DH could say before they next arrive that due to the pregnancy/new baby and toddler plus heavy workloads, the cooked breakfasts will have to go. And ask them/agree what they prefer instead. If they get upset, just make sure he reiterates that it is just too difficult at the moment and he hopes they can manage for three days. Lay it on thick "We really appreciate it...." etc etc.

Although you cant expect them to do a lot of work or alter their "loudness" it sounds like you will have to get them to adjust their expectations once you have 2 young DC, so perhaps some gradual changes would work.

is it possible that you are feeling this more at the moment due to pregnancy and general exhaustion? that said once baby is here it will also be more exaggerated.

i got annoyed with own parents who came to visit with various relatives when i was pg and didnt help clear plates or wash up etc. i didnt expect it from friends (who of course did pitch in) but somehow you feel family should see more and help.

now my MIL on the other hand offers help but doesnt push it as i think she feels it is my house and she doesnt want to take over. could they feel like they cant make own tea as it may seem like you should have been offering it?

as for pouring own drinks again that can seem like they are helping themselves as you are being neglectful. so maybe they dont want to tread on toes. i would set bottle of whatever out on the counter and say now theres the wine etc please top yourselves up!

A family room in a travelodge local to them could be a really good investment when you go to visit. You can increase the visits to them as you "won't have room" for them to visit you when the new baby comes.

You can then go to them for a meal/walk in park etc, and have an escape route for when it all gets too much.

Coffeemum my FIL is quite set in his ways and can be a bit difficult, but he accepted the sandwich and ate it...what else could he do really?!

Sometimes I think that if you just tell people how it is going to be, without any room for discussion or objections, or apologies, they react better than if you pussy foot around the issue.

Coffeemum you're obviously a fab host and your PiL must really look forward to coming to stay with you!

Reminds me of the situation my brother is in with my parents. They adore visiting them, especially since my niece was born. They see it as 'pampering' and it is the highlight(s) of their year.

My mum has geared up a bit since my niece arrived and does help a bit in the house, but she is frightened of doing too much in case my SiL sees it as criticism or interference. My dad is inclined to sit on his bum a wait to be waited on, so my brother has had to start telling him to go to the fridge and get his own beer - and dad just gets up and does it!

So perhaps just asking them will get some results. Gotta be better than falling out.

Hello all,

Sorry i've been away from this thread from so long - i've been so busy since I first posted! Thank you all for your advice, tips and support - it's really been very helpful.

We've come to the conclusion that DH will avoid confrontation if at all possible because of the possible repercussions. However, we have come up with several strategies for coping with the situation going forward:

a) We will no longer have PIL to stay in our flat - we aim to move to a house in under two years, so that's not as drastic as it sounds! In the meantime, we will visit them, or book them into the very nice local B&B and pay half the cost of that for them.

b)DH will tell PIL calmly and repeatedly when they make loads of noise to quieten down. We will both try to 'escape' to another room whenever possible. DH will also tell PIL to move hot drinks away from DS, and if they don't, we will simply remove him from the room until they've finished their drink - not in a huff, but subtly!

c) When staying with them, we will plan to take DS out for a walk and a break in the fresh air - alone! so that we can all have a bit of time out - at least once a day.

d) Hopefully, by the time we're in a house, the extra space will make it all much easier - but it will be easier to set new precedents by then - eg. laying out breakfast stuff with everyone helping themselves, also more space for people to get their own drinks etc.

e) We have a tendancy to put a 'brave face' on how busy and tired we are, so have maybe made a rod for our own backs...but from now on, we will make no bones about the fact we are knackered! Hopefully the message will sink in!

f) As someone suggested, we need to just check that DS isn't allergic to nuts - i know i've been a bit PFB about that, and if we can cross that concern off the list, it's one less thing to worry about.

So, fingers crossed that this all improves the situation. The one thing i can't really fix is DH's utter disappointment at how little support he feels he gets - he is heartbroken, and i'm heartbroken for him. He is such a good guy But maybe doing all the above will make things better...

Thanks again everyone for listening to my woes!