Year 8 at grammar school struggling with algebra, what helped your child?

[Elevenseconds]

DD13 is at a grammar school and did very well (objectively) in the maths part of the 11+. Her mental maths has always been exceptional, and she didn't really struggle much in Y7 maths - no longer top of the form, but to be expected in a more competitive environment.

In Y8 things seem to have gone totally to pot. She is struggling with algebra massively. I can explain concepts to her (e.g. the nth term) and she will get the hang of it - but two days later she's forgotten it again. It's too conceptual for her.

She's doing quite badly in her homework (averaging 50%). The school run a Maths Club, but she won't attend voluntarily because it's also where they send kids who don't do their homework, and she's very diligent and would feel it was a punishment. (And to be fair, she's 13 and wants to hang out with her friends, not spend more time on her least favourite subject.)

I think it's just moving too quickly for her. She is generally not struggling at grammar - of course she has her stronger and weaker subjects but she is a mid-high performer across all other subjects.

Maths is also not my strong suit, and the trickier questions she gets are now beyond my reach. My 1996 B grade in GCSE maths was a very long time ago, and I have forgotten the vast majority of what I learned.

I got a friend round last night to show her straight line graphs. DD made all the right noises, was very polite and compliant... and appears to have taken literally nothing in.

I spoke to her Maths teacher in January and said I was concerned - so she's been moved to the front of the class - but I'm not seeing any improvement. DD says they have 3 different maths teachers - and one of them is an ECT, and DD has blamed the quality of the teaching, but having spent some time with her, I'm confident she is genuinely finding the concepts difficult, regardless of who is explaining them.

We are happy to consider outside tuition if we need to, though I am conscious that she already gets a lot of homework, so I don't want to overload her.

I guess what I'm asking is did your DC struggle with algebra in Y8 - and if so, what helped?

You aren't overreacting though, as she needs to feel comfortable with using letters in maths to help with formulae in eg physics. You don't want her to get 'lost' in algebra at this point.

One of the reasons algebra gets introduced early in the maths curriculum is because it then gets used in physics and chemistry. So probably at the moment she is seeing it for the first time abd it’s it going in.

but by the time she’s done straight line graphs in chemistry and physics and maybe geography and biology she’ll have had a lot of practice.

i wouldn’t be worrying too much yet.

if you are concerned then try Corbett maths which has 5 a day maths problems at foundation/foundationplys/higher which will give her practice and also give you some idea of grade levels.

https://corbettmaths.com/5-a-day/gcse/

If she can do missing box questions, then make her some boxes. Smaller ones (about egg or votive candle sized) for the mathematical symbols, tea cup or decorative candle sized for the different numbers/letters.

You change the label on top (square Post-its are great for this, use a thick board marker, rather than a standard biro) for each one to replicate the equation - and if you want to make it even clearer, make sure that the missing part is a bright, white box so it stands out as what she's looking for.

This way, she talks through creating the equation, she talks through the steps to move things around and she sees, feels and hears what's going on as she does it; and the repetition gives her a strong memory of what the stuff on paper or rattled through in class at them actually represents.

I would get a tutor sooner rather than later, maths just keeps building and without solid foundations you can’t keep up.

Another hands on way would be to use old fashioned weighing scales and a load of pound coins and small paper bags.

In my example 2y + 5 = 17 above.
You put 6 pound coins into 2 paper bags.
Then on one side of the scales b=put the 2 paper bags and 5 coins, and then 17 coins on the other side, it should balance.

Then get rid of 5 coins on both sides
Then get rid of half on each side
you should have 1 paper bag on ne side, and 6 coins on the other.
So there must be 6 coins in the bag.

(doesn't work well with negative numbers though!)

She is fine with 2y+5=17 - it's when it becomes very conceptual she struggles - I've attached one from earlier. (We have since solved it - or rather ChatGPT has - but it's really bloody difficult, and as soon as you think you've got the hang of it, the line goes in the other direction or X is 3/10 or some nonsense!)

Edit to add image is under review because algebra is triggering!

Simple trick for that.

equation of a line is

y = mx + c

the c is where it crosses the vertical line

the m is it’s slope - so how far up the line goes in one square across.

so that line crosses the vertical at -3

so it’s
y = mx - 3

if you move one square across to the right the line has gone up two so the slope is 2

so the equation is

y = 2x - 3

you are well into the higher paper at this point -this is higher grade 5 ir grade 6 material

@Elevenseconds something like this Is just an algorithm (I have a Ds at year 9 so doing lots and lots of algebra)

there is a very specific way to find m and C, she just has to learn the pattern rather than working it out by herself

I have maths degree and doing lots of maths at work so I’m all over maths for DC, I promise you certain things are just “following the pattern/algorithm and repeat the hell out of it “

@Octavia64 I love your thinking (what do you do?) but isn’t m=y2-y1/x2-x1?

Agree with the 2 above. Finding the equation of a straight line is just following the method.
Which you ingrain with practice.

I’m a retired maths teacher!

yes that is another way to work out m

it’s usually introduced more visually (how much does the line go up when you go across one square)

but then when you get lines where it’s gone up part of a square and you are not quite sure how much you can use your way to work it out exactly

if you move one to the right then x2-x1 is just 1.
y2-y1 is then the amount y has moved up or down.

Not true. Not all children live in a grammar school area so being in one doesn’t make you necessarily brighter than those who aren’t. My DC is at a comp. Never had any issue with algebra; flew through it. Same with other subjects.

Don’t fill your DC’s head with nonsense that they are still ahead of most kids their age.

This is exactly what my Y7 DD was doing on Mathswatch. Maybe prewatch the videos?

@Elevenseconds ,

‘The way I learned was basically to do the same problem with different variables about 20 times.

They don't seem to teach in that way at grammar school - and even MathsWatch ups the difficulty significantly between questions, so she sort of gets the hang of one type of question - but then the next question is something completely different, so she is missing the chance to bed in the knowledge.’

I tend to think that too much attention is paid to explanation and not enough to what I would term fluency.

I don’t want to be thinking about whether multiplication is distributive over addition when I am solving algebra problems, I just need a reliable method that works every time.

Vanishingly few pupils will end up doing theoretical pure mathematics at degree level and beyond and they will be good enough to learn or just ‘see’ the theory anyway.

As someone who has taught A level physics for many years, I am astonished at how hard the pupils need to think about relatively simple maths which just comes automatically to me (even some fairly strong A grade students).

I do think that we need to focus on fluency more than deep understanding for the vast majority of pupils.

Finding someone who could explain it a way I understood. Algebra comprehension is NOT a one size fits all affair.

I think you have missed the point somewhat.
If the grammar takes the 'top 20%' then the child is in the top 20% in their area.
It doesn't mean that a child at a comp in he county next door isn't brighter than them.
However, surely unless something has gone wrong with the selection process, even being in the bottom set in a grammar would normally mean a child is expected to get at least grade 6 for maths which does not mean they are 'bad' at maths, just that they are in a skewed population.

I'm hearing really mixed messages between "This is higher GCSE paper" (which makes me think, let's not worry too much right now) and "My 11 year old finds this easy and it's part of the Y7 curriculum."

I suspect she will get there (with lots of practice) - it is just the teaching method I think that doesn't incorporate as much practice as she needs.

And no, for sure we don't think she's better at maths than every single child at a secondary modern, but yes, as a whole, the cohort is stronger than the upper schools locally.

Thank you everyone for your help so far - lots of ideas here!

Straight line graphs and nth terms are in the upper end of the foundation tier (and lower end of the higher tier).

So you shouldn't be worrying about failing gcse maths yet, but also for a child at grammar, you should be thinking of assisting in getting this resolved.

The spread of ability at year 7 is very high.
it only increases.

drawing a straight line from an equation is what they call the crossover topics that is on both foundation and higher so is grade 4/grade 5 material.

working out the equation of a line from the graph isn’t on foundation at all but is on higher abc depending on how complicated it is will be anything from grade 6 to grade 8.

straight line graphs are usually on either the year 7 or year 8 maths scheme of work because you need to be able to draw them for science and geography and lots of other things.

students in lower sets at a comprehensive will just be drawing them. So maybe taking a table of data and working out what scales to use for the axes and then plotting the points and joining them up.

I used to teach autistic teens who were mostly doing the foundation paper and there were whole swathes of the curriculum they just couldn’t access.

Does anyone know if grammar schools do the foundation paper? Mine (a million years ago) only did Higher and Intermediate.

intermediate doesn’t exist any more.

i suspect they’d want her to do the higher but in general tiering decision are not made until autumn of year 11 and deadline for changes is March-ish

There is nothing stopping them.

(Though maybe if they had a pupil who was really at foundation tier level they might suggest a move to a different school.pre-GCSE?)

There is however nothing to suggest that your DC won't be fully capable of higher tier by y11.

It would be a shame if that were the case as she's flying in the arts and humanities and (for now) holding her own in Science. Struggling a bit with Computer Science and DT, but less bothered about those as she can drop them before GCSE. I have never heard of anyone being asked to leave grammar school for academic reasons (it's not a private school) but I guess people wouldn't shout about it.

I think we will see how she does in tomorrow's test. If - as suspected - not well, I will contact the teacher again. Then potentially look at Dr Frost and/or Dragon Box, and possibly some face-to-face tutoring in Y9. We have a local Kip McGrath, so perhaps it might be sensible to scope that out too.

I've never actually heard of someone being suggested to leave grammar school for academic reasons either. If it happened with any frequency you'd expect it to be mentioned on MN.

If she can pass the 11+ she is surely capable in maths.
If still struggling in June may be worth contacting tutors then when they become free from GCSEs.