Landlord asked me to leave, what compensation to ask for?

[Whooo]

I’m in my 20s and moved to London 5 years ago for work - renting the same apartment since.

My landlord wants to sell the apartment and issued an invalid Section 21 notice. I don’t believe this notice is valid as my deposit isn’t protected, so I mentioned it to my landlord in confusion. I added that I am happy to negotiate as ultimately I don’t want housing stress over my head.

They basically came back with a response to say, they really want vacant possession asap and are really wanting to avoid court. they have asked me if I’m willing to move out this month and essentially help them out so they can sell the property immediately as they need the money from the sale. As a starting offer they have said they will immediately refund the deposit.

I’m willing to engage with this but I am also thinking this isn’t enough. What would you ask for to facilitate this?

• for example, Royal Mail redirection costs
• I work fully from home, and to get my internet switched over will lead to me not having service for 3 days which will impact on my ability to work.
• Costs of moving my furniture/belongings and having to potentially put into storage as most places come furnished

just wanted to get feedback on if there is anything else I have missed, as it’s a stressful situation

When I had to give my tenants notice, I was told to assume that they wouldn't leave, and would stay until the bailiffs arrived, which would be about six months later. That's the advice that Shelter and the CAB would give to any tenant in this situation, because if they leave on the notice date, the council will say that they've chosen to be homeless. They will only get a council home of the bailiffs are on their way.

So your landlord will be as stressed as fuck right now. He'll know that he's unlikely to get you out quickly, or even on time. And in addition to that, he's broken the law and so the S21 is meaningless. And of course the legal process to get you out involving the bailiffs is an expensive and stressful process for him to undertake.

So you really do have the upper hand here, @Whooo . And as an ex-accidental landlord, I have no sympathy for him. Registering the deposit is the absolute baseline for legally letting a property.

So communicate with him confidently. Decide what you want (and three times the deposit is the absolute minimum you should end up with) and of her steals, Remind him that that is the minimum a court would order, and that Shelter's advice is that you don't leave. So if he wants you to go he's going to have to be realistic.

@LupaMoonhowl I think you've got that backwards? The landlord has decided to sell up, so now the tenant is considering how best to work it, not the other way round?
The OP has been a good tenant by the sound of it, and paid rent for 5 years. The landlord has still decided to sell.

Yes, the landlord has decided to sell his house.

A house which if he sold, he'd get 4.5% return on the the value each year just having it the bank: no risk, no work involved, no-one scamming him. If he put it in the stock market he'd get 7% average (more like 10% the last 5 years).

That's the value of the capital: what he's giving her the use of in return for the rent. The tenant hasn't been paying rent as a gift to the landlord: it's payment in return for what he's given her those 5 years. Which is the use of his house during that time, instead of him getting a return on his capital either from the bank or the stock exchange.

Fair exchange. Whilst the tenancy is ongoing: rent in return for use of the house.

Now that tenancy is over. Just as it would be if the tenant gave notice.

Can you imagine if the tenant decided to give notice, and the landlord was on here with everyone encouraging him to extort 6 extra months of rent from the tenant (without her getting to stay in the house) just because he could?!? Sorry 'negotiate'. Nah - it's still extortion. The only reason it will work is because you know the courts don't work as they should, not because it's actually justifiable.

It's disgusting, and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

Completely agree ^^

I also question everyone up on their high horse about LL not 'protecting' the deposit. While I am aware that is legally required, his failure to do so in no way affects @Whooo - indeed the LL has offered to immediately return her deposit, so no danger regarding safety of the deposit.

Given that @Whooo is planning to buy anyway, and is a 'high earner', why all these suggestions to screw the LL?

Will moving out sooner than expected actually leave you out of pocket OP, in a way what it wouldn't if you stayed for a few months longer? If so, ask to be compensated that amount, plus a little extra for the bother you're going through. Off the top of my head, a month's rent might be fair.

The landlord, instead of investing his money in a bank giving him a secure rate of return, decided to invest it in a higher risk, higher return vehicle. High risk being the definitive part here.

The landlord was given very few rules and regulations to follow- provide an EPC, a gas safety cert and to insure the tenants deposit- that doesn't belong to him. He didn't follow that rule.

The landlord now wants to take back the property in a manner not following the rules, and has given a sob story. He hasn't offered anything to try and sweeten that deal. He can say no to anything the OP negotiates.

If he was a good landlord, he would have followed the few rules he legally has to, and should have asked the OP if there was anything he can do to make leaving her home easier.

The Landlord has decided he wants to breach his contract with his tenant. Negotiating a fair settlement for additional expenses when a contract is breached is entirely standard.

The Landlord has also acted illegally with OP's money, something which was so common in the recent past that the the law was changed to make it punitively expensive to do this. Going after compensation for illegal treatment of the deposit is a detterance so that tenants aren't routinely shafted as they used to be.

Buy to let mortgages require a substantial deposit and statistically the property is unlikely to be in negative equity

Yes,but she also wouldn’t be moving out immediately with all the stress that brings.

@Whooo they have to refund your deposit anyway so their offer is meaningless. Are you sure you can find somewhere quickly? If so I’d be asking for those costs for a period or a lump sum, say equivalent to the rent you would have paid for the notice period- you are giving them something they want so why shouldn’t you get something return?

edit- also meant to say I think there are legal provisions for what landlords have to do if they don’t protect the deposit properly, look those up and have them in your proposal, even if to say he should pay x but if he does y you won’t claim those payments.

Decide what you want (and three times the deposit is the absolute minimum you should end up with) and of her steals

I have no idea what I actually typed/swyped to get that weird autocorrect!

Fair settlement. Not extortion.

The landlord isn't shafting the tenant over her deposit. He's offered to give it back to her immediately. Yes, he's broken the law - but he's offered to make it right immediately and she hasn't suffered from it, so extorting punitive damages from him is a dick move.

Just as it would be a dick move if she asked for an extra day in the house because she had messed up her removal company and he extorted 6 months rent from her.

@strawberrybubblegum of course the landlord isn't acting fairly!
Acting fairly would have been immediately refunding the deposit when he realised he made a mistake, ie. 5 years ago.
Fair would have been having a chat with her at the point he realised he needed to sell,which is probably at least 6 months ago, laying out his plans for the future, and telling her he'd be flexible for her decisions- such as move out at the end of the month without worrying about notice, or I'm giving you 6-10 months notice so you can start trying to find somewhere now. Or quite simply- I'm sorry we have to do this to you with your home of 5 years. We'll do everything we can to help or make it easier. I have to issue a section 21, but I'm as flexible as possible, you tell me how I can help. Here's the number of some landlords buddies, I'll put in a good word.
He hasn't been fair.
He has explained what he wants: things on his terms, within his timescales.
If you sign up for the high risk high return gamble of being a landlord, you only get to play by your own rules if the tenant doesn't know their rights. If they know the rules, then abide by them or get fucked.

Nah, the deposit is neither here nor there as far as fairness is concerned. OP paid it, she's getting it back (without LL even checking any damage OP might have done).

Yes, LL is asking for quick vacancy - and OP is free to refuse if it inconveniences her unduly, or ask for some kind of reasonable compensation to sweeten the deal. But demanding 3 X the deposit or 6 months rent is disgusting.

He didn’t secure it.

Thats very unfair. He’s effectively stolen OP’s money when she’s given it to him in good faith

And it’s not disgusting, it’s what OPis entitled to because the LL fucked up.
Its supposed to be an incentive to protect deposits, and he didn’t. it’s the consequences of his actions

He’s effectively stolen OP’s money

Lol! Oh come on, the deposit was held as a deposit and is being returned to OP now that her tenancy is ending. That's what a deposit is. He was sloppy not to protect it, but zero harm done to OP.

If ever anyone needed an illustration of why people would have to be crazy to become a LL, this thread is it!

He’s only offered her her deposit back because it’s the only way to get back in compliance. The compensation she can claim for that is separate and isn’t about fairness. It’s supposed to be punitive.

The fair compensation isn’t because he’s failed to protect her deposit, it’s because he wants her to move on his timetable, not her own (or, at least, not the contractual one). So OP is not extorting the landlord in asking for compensation to cover the costs of moving, which are generally very high. It’s not just the monetary costs of any higher rent you might have to pay elsewhere, removals etc, but also the time sink and general hassle. Especially if, as you have claimed, lots of landlords are exiting the market and rentals are in short supply.

He wants her out this month! Which is earlier than the section 21 date as far as I can tell. So he needs to make it worth her while.
There are two issues here: his illegal use of her deposit, and him desperately wanting her out early. He can't have it all his own way.

It will be a second (or perhaps third or fourth charge 😆). Mortgage gets paid first - ALWAYS. They insist on having a “first charge” over any property they lend on.

If there’s no equity left, then there’s nothing for the OP if it goes to court. He could then claim bankruptcy and OP will never get her money back. She needs to start at the bottom before escalating to court. It’s easier (and cheaper!) all round.

She should just speak to him with what she wants and take it from there.

Not necessarily - if he’s bad with money he could have other borrowing secured which will come before OP’s charge.

She needs to know the actual facts first.

They MAY be awarded UP to 3 x deposit.

Choose your wording carefully. You’re exaggerating.

It’s nuts.

There’s an awful lot of people on this site who seem to want to see others with nowhere to live or not able to leave home, even for uni, because all the landlords have gone.

There needs to be properties to rent for so many reasons.

Yes. After becoming responsible for my late mother's buy to let, I felt terrible about having to give notice to the tenants. But I had absolutely no choice as she died in debt and her creditors needed paying.

So few people will ever be able to get a deposit together to buy their own home, that there needs to be a healthy rental market.

I have a relative in thsi position where the agent fucked up and failed to retrospectively protect the desposit of a long stay tenant. The agents have committeed other serious offences too but the LL does not know. She is oblivious that the buck stops with her. Anything for a quiet life she trusted the agents to do things correctly. Waiting for the new legislation so we can hit them with all this. I have no sympathy for this LL because there was no agent involved. He should have read the small print. Insteadhe was content to let the T be his little piggy bank and pay his mortgage.

You need a large deposit for a buy to let mortgage. As it was bought at least 7 years ago it will also have gone up in price. So after the mortgage has been paid there will be the whole deposit he paid to buy it, plus additional.equity. So a charge on the property would most likely be paid. Also, most people really don't want a CCJ. Also, OP can check if there are charges on the property by downloading the deeds from the Land Registry.

But the landlord will save a lot of money if she moves out. It will sell quicker and probably for a higher price with vacant possession. So offering her an incentive to move is in his interests.

To those saying she has 'paid his mortgage'. Most BTL mortgages are interest only so you still owe the purchase price at the end.

Many landlords are selling up at the moment, the market is flooded with BTL, particularly leasehold flats. The prices for leasehold flats have plummeted in my South East town. You can get a 2 bed 2 bath really nice flat for around £260k. In contrast the cheapest 2 bed house is £425k.

None of the tenants I've had have wanted to buy. They have been either new to the country so no credit rating or transient people planning to move in a few years. If there were no landlords where would these people live?

The housing crisis is not the fault of landlords, its the fault of Thatcher's housing policy. We will never recover from the damage that woman did.

The old legislation covers all this, you don't have to wait for anything.