Men's view of being divorced for not sharing the load

[TheAmusedQuail]

It isn't really like me to be interested in the bloke's POV, because I'm firmly feminist.

But I do like to have a view of both perspectives on things in life (e.g. although left-wing, I do take a gander at, for example, Reform perspectives despite vehemently disagreeing with them).

I wonder about the perspective of men who women leave for not adequately contributing to the family load (housework, childcare, mental load). From my POV, my ex, while useless with me, wised up a little with his 2nd wife. Not totally, leopards don't change their spots, but he's not the asshole he was while I was married to him.

I wonder how other men who are divorced for being lazy etc rationalise it and feel about it. Do they regret coasting into marital breakdown because they didn't share the housework? For not doing more of the parenting? For not cooking a couple of times a week?

I have suspicions about how this gets framed by them, but there must be other men like my ex (who is no paragon of virtue) who wise up a bit and hold themselves culpable.

Time and again I've seen men "reform" for a 2nd wife. It's pretty common. They behave better, pull their weight more and treat her better. Maybe they're afraid to be viewed as that guy that no woman will stay with.

I think many of them spin the poor me with that crazy ex narrative, and then when they see the flicker of doubt in their new partner’s eyes turn somersaults to preserve their identity in her eyes.

It’s not so much that they’ve learned a lesson, but that they cannot face the psychological pain of confronting their own failings - a minor version of narcissistic collapse.

Nah ime its more that they cant afford another divorce. I know two men like this and both admit that they hate being married again but another divorce would finish them off financially. One is family and one a colleague.

One was left and the other (the colleague) had an affair and was chucked out. both have been forced, reluctantly, to pull their weight in the second marriages. Colleague especially mourns his first marriage as it was so much easier than his second, he does admit to getting what he deserves. I bet his wife is far happier without him, his comments suggest so!

They thought they were getting maidwives and when the first one didnt work out just assumed that she was a demanding bitch. Until wife number two made the same complaints and he doesnt want to lose yet another house and yet more of his pension.

My ex still thinks that I’m unreasonable and that I’m trying to tell him what to do all of the time. He sees that he is a better father than his own father (bar was set very low!) and can’t understand why I don’t praise him continually.

Even the kids reducing contact with him and telling him he’s not great doesn’t seem to concentrate his mind…..

He hasn’t married again.

Yep my children actually said to their father how come you do housework now you are with X, when you didn’t do anything at all when you were married to mum?
No idea what made him change but I do know she kicked him out more than once…….

When I started divorce proceedings, my XH actually said that maybe I thought that being married to him wasn't good for me, but he believed that being married to me was very good for him and he would fight all the way to make me stay married to him. Unfortunately, instead of pulling his socks up, improving his personal hygiene, doing more of the domestic tasks and getting a job (any job would have done), his idea of "fighting all the way" was to be as obstructive as possible, including appointing a barrister and applying for spousal maintenance and custody of the children, in the hope that he'd browbeat me into deciding to stay. (The children chose to stay with me even though he'd become a SAHP by default, and I made him a generous financial offer in return for a clean break and an end to the game of courtrooms and barristers.)

More than 20 years later he hasn't remarried and I don't think he'd have either the insight or the initiative to pull himself together for a second wife. He does have a partner who suits him a lot better than I ever did in many ways, but she isn't willing to live with him.

No, I really don't think that's the case. We had constant rows for years, because I was sick of his mess, his laziness, his lack of participation, his drinking, his sexual demands. I was no bloody pushover and told him when our child was 2 that if he didn't shape up there would be no 2nd child. He didn't and when DC was 5, and ex wanted to start trying for another, I told him it was off the table because I wasn't being a married single parent of 2.

He had slightly started to change when we visited his family when we'd been together for 10 years and he actually took my side rather than his mothers. He would have been almost 40 then. But unfortunately for him, it was too little, too late. And the attitude in the home didn't change.

So no, I really don't think it was because I didn't address it. He got shit about his attitude / behaviour constantly, I stopped having sex with him, refused a 2nd child and eventually left him. He changed because he didn't want a 2nd divorce having been a broken man after the 1st one and because it made him grow up a bit. Not because wife 1 (me) was a pushover while wife 2 had higher standards.

What was the issue

I think with the second wife, the man is often also the "experienced" one when it comes to child-rearing, so they start on a more even footing, piss her off less, and don't deteriorate in the same way because he gets off to a stronger start.

My husband isn't divorceable-level, but my god the helplessness is maddening. And this is a man who did SPL, shares the wakes, the night times, takes our son out, does chores... I can't imagine what it would be like with a man who didn't do any of that, because it's hard enough with a man who does those things in the faffiest way imaginable.

I think there is a lot of truth in the belief that men don’t want to be seen as failing yet again. A lot of them are shocked when the first wife files for divorce and can’t face going through another divorce. It makes them really look like the bad guy. Plus the cost and generally the man is the one to have to leave the family home. Where will he go? How on earth will he afford a house big enough to cater for all his children from at least 2 marriages? Plus he won’t have wifey to look after the children etc etc. he knows how that pans out. So he works harder to keep the new wife happy. After all, that’s the reason he has gone on to have
more children.

The trouble is they are so arrogant they think their wives will put up with it…until she doesn’t. Then it’s too late for the thick buggers.

Yeah its hard to push the narrative of "My ex was a nagging lazy bitch who wanted me to do everything!" when the second wife leaves for exactly the same reason. Although more than a few still try to!

I agree.

They really dont know how it will end, they genuinely believe that she wont leave. "oh she has it made with me.....she knows which side her bread is buttered......she wont want to pay the bills herself....." they really convince themselves that they do so much!

There have been countless research projects into this and invariably they show that men vastly overestimate the amount of work they do within the home and family compared to how much they actually do. So the idea that she means it when she says he isnt pulling his weight and will leave is laughable, because how would she ever cope without him?!

I also think that this is partly why so many of them go through the "tramp" stage after a break up. Partly is manipulative to get her to come home but also because he carries on doing what he has always done (nothing) but there are no clean clothes, no toiletries bought, no cleaning done. The ones who are capable of self reflection can sort themselves out and do better for the next wife, but most are just perma victims and will wallow until they are rescued by the next mug.

I suspect, I may be wrong, that a lot of men in that position think it's all a bit petty and don't understand how profound this lack of support felt to their ex-partners. They might see it as 'all because I didn't do enough washing up' and not 'Hmmm, maybe I totally neglected my wife/partner's needs and left her to do absolutely everything domestic and family related' or 'It wasn't very fair that my life continued much as before after we had the kids but she ended up giving up her hobbies and not seeing her friends half as much'

For a while my DH seemed to think that just because he earned more, it gave him the right to do less and that I could do 95% of the household stuff, all the kids stuff and a full time career while he just had the career. It took a period of living apart and him having to do housework and career (kids stayed with me and refused to visit him) for him to work out that there are only so many hours in a day. And that a full time job is still full time even if mine is slightly lower paid. When I let him move home, he finally became an equal partner. If anything now, he does more than I do.

Not a technique I recommend, but in many ways, it is like a second marriage, I guess!

Absolutely. A lot of women are either socialised to excuse things as “Men! What are they like?!” or simply don’t have enough socialisation with men to effectively communicate and deal with them. A lot of women are a bit in awe of them, especially if they don’t have brothers or a father that they’re close to, or if they have a very male-centred mother, and are very meek in the way they approach them. While they may complain to other women for sympathy they often excuse his behaviour when it comes down to it.

If you’re on TikTok there has been some interesting discussion about this lately.

Statistically the happiest women are childless and single. The happiest men are the married ones. The unhappiest men are divorced.

I think they improve on subsequent marriages not because they learned or improved. I don’t think it’s financially motivated to save the remains of pension nor house. But because they HATE loneliness. Men simply can’t be alone. (Namalt) They hate it. Again the statistics in regard to remarriage after a spouses death bear out this theory- men remarry with haste, women with reluctance.

Whilst the behaviour of any individual is always ultimately the choice of that individual when it comes to men pulling our weight domestically then often we are conditioned not to do so.
Society generally puts low value on domestic activities but lots of value on work in a workplace. Society then expects men to prove their worth and does so by judging their paid work.
Add in an upbringing like I had where my father did nothing to help in the home whilst my mother did everything. I remember on one occasion, I must have been about 11, actually being told off for trying to help my mother.
So, is this an excuse, a get out of free card for men, absolutely not.
It shouldn't take too much thought to realise that a shared home should mean shared responsibilities, be it cooking, cleaning or child care.
Ultimately people don't like admitting that something was their fault so find it easy to blame the 'crazy ex' rather than look at themselves and make the needed changes to their attitude.
Was I a perfect husband, well of course not, but I honestly tried to share the load domestically, and must have been at least partially successful as believe me my wife would have let me know if she thought I wasn't pulling my weight.
Also remember that a man getting the push because he wasn't sharing the load will be talking to his mates, I.e other men, who aren't likely to do anything other than back him up.

Could you add a link to the Tiktok? OR the user names? I'd be very interested.

Thank you!

I never thought being "firmly feminist" implies not bring interested in "bloke's opinion". You live- you learn.

In my dad's case I think he was a lot older by the time he had his second family and so he had already taken early retirement and so had a lot more time to spend with the DC.
We barely saw him growing up tbh. So consequently we still barely see him. I can see he has changed but I can't say it's that inspiring.

My mum was my dad’s third wife. He never changed just kept getting married until he found a woman who liked being a martyr.

ny kids tell me their dad cooks sometimes. Bit different because he was abusive not just lazy but he never did anything like that the short time we were together. I suspect once he gets new gf to marry him and he can take half her house he will change

Mum told me that my dad shaped up when he married my step-mum. No kids.

Well, we're not known for being the most rational creatures.

We think in emotions, men think in logic. To us, not doing the dishes is him not caring about the relationship, not helping to keep the home in order, therefore he's a selfish, misogynistic arsehole. To him, not doing the dishes may be a perfectly rational, logical thought process. He may think, the bills are getting paid, everyone's healthy and well fed, the house is warm, all the important things are taken care of. The choice between some washing-up and and an extra half hour to relax or to do something more important becomes a binary process. A logical conclusion.

Perhaps if we stopped being so flipping obsessed with largely irrelevant nonsense, relationships would last much longer.