What should happen about the hunger strikers?

[noblegiraffe]

There are a group of people currently on remand in prison awaiting trial for criminal activities taken in support of the (currently) proscribed terrorist group Palestine Action. Some of them have gone on hunger strike and are suffering health impacts and some have been hospitalised.

Their demands appear to be:
to be released on bail
for Palestine Action to be de-proscribed as a terrorist group
for the UK to stop selling arms to Israel

I'm seeing various MPs writing earnest letters to David Lammy as Justice Secretary, saying that he must meet with them urgently to discuss their demands.

And then what?

It should go without saying that I really don't want people to die, and I'm sure that their families must be frantic, but what is actually expected to happen here? The proscription of Palestine Action is being appealed in the courts and I don't think people threatening to kill themselves should impact the democratic process.

Being released on bail? While I agree that it is shocking that they have been held in prison for 2 years while awaiting trial, because the justice system should work faster than that, they are active members of a currently proscribed terrorist organisation. At least one of the hunger strikers took part in the attack on Elbit where a female police officer had her back broken by one of the activists who attacked her with a sledgehammer while she lay on the ground. There's plenty of video footage of this, and I don't think the hunger strikers have condemned it. If they did get bail by threatening to kill themselves, surely everyone would then give it a go?

So what should happen?

Where does the "two years on remand" come from? There's no mention of it in the BBC article you linked to.

Regardless, these people should not be bailed - the risk of them reoffending is way too high.

They should be ignored.

If they want to starve themselfs to death then hey ho. I would rather they do it out on conditional bail with an ankle bracelet on.

They haven’t spent two years on remand yet, I think that comes from their scheduled court date which is still a long way off.

Do you think everyone should be granted bail then, whatever their risk of reoffending or absconding? Because they’re innocent until proven guilty?

Exactly. I'm elsewhere in the system 😁 but we all know it's a common tactic of manipulation and tantrums as well as a symptom of someone's mental health.

Sadly, too many hand wringers only care when the person throwing the tantrum is somehow relevant to them - they don't care when it's a man with a lengthy history of drug and alcohol abuse and complex MH issues leading to a significant offending history of theft and violence.

They have been held in remand without trial for longer than the permitted six months. They have never harmed anyone.

I have stated my opinion on that further up. I am not saying blanket bail.

Imagine being so privileged you can turn your nose up at food provided free of charge three times a day.

We keep hearing people in Palestine atlre being starved. Starving yourself in prison is doing nothing to support them or the cause.

It's just another symptom of the nonsensical world these PA-supporting people are living in.

Each of these people have multiple choices. Death by starvation is one. Living and trying to actually try to support the Palestinian people is another.

Not sure sure the optics of force feeding people who are choosing to starve over doing fuck all for the thousands of children who go hungry every day are appropriate in a supposedly rich civilised country.

And people have died being force fed.

On 25 September, Fionán Lynch saw Ashe being carried away to receive this treatment and called out to him, "Stick it Tom". Ashe called back, "I'll stick it, Fin".[22] That was the last time they spoke to each other. Ashe was carried back, blue in the face and unconscious. He was removed to the Mater Misericordiae Hospital (which faces the prison), where he died within a few hours.
At the inquest into his death, the jury condemned the staff at the prison for the "inhuman and dangerous operation performed on the prisoner, and other acts of unfeeling and barbaric conduct".[23] They concluded that Ashe had died of heart failure and congestion of the lungs, and that this was due to force-feeding combined with the previous removal of his bed and boots (which had left him in a physically weakened state).[24]

Should every prisoner then go on hunger strike?
demand release from prison
crimes cancelled
and a partridge in a pear tree before they’re going to eat again?

Longer than the permitted six months? If you know the state of the CJS, you'll know custody time limits are breached daily.

I don't expect you so much care when it's, say, a young man with a history of carrying weapons and selling drugs who is remanded on charges of possession of a zombie knife and class A drugs with intent to supply? Or are you campaigning for their release on bail as well?

I think the majority of them were trying to stop UK arms being used to kill Palestinian civilians and had tried the legal routes.

One of them harmed a police officer. The rest have committed criminal damage or were present when criminal damage were committed.

Have they? The majority you say? What legal routes have they all tried?

Popped over to Israel to protest in person?

Sent financial support to charities working in that arena?

I mean, there are many dozens of things they could do, including most of the legal protest options I've seen in the UK, and just say they are supporting Palestinian people, rather than they support a proscribed terrorist organisation.... Then they would all be out in the community, continuing their work and protests.

It's almost as though there are consequences to actions. Or FAFO.

It is legal to try all necessary means to prevent a genocide, including damage to military equipment. There is case history where people have been found not guilty, in the UK, using this defence. The assault on the police officer sounds like thuggery.

Just to remind everyone that law is merely what the state says it is. No more, no less

10 IRA men died in hunger strike in 1981. It was a very effective tool as it made them martyrs in the eyes of the international community.

They should eat, if they won’t do that, that’s their choice. Nothing should change or be given, no one should get released on bail (or any other concessions) for what is essentially foot stamping.

Attacking the military is attacking the country. That’s true either the attacker is a foreign power or a native individual. I don’t want these people to harm themselves. But to hell with the idea they should be released. I sleep better knowing our national defence is taken very seriously by the government and the courts.

The fact I don't need a history book, Wikipedia, or a Netflix series to remember the name Bobby Sands pretty much proves that. However, in a reflection on how celebrity works, I would have to google to find out who the other 9 - if indeed there were 10 - were).

The ones who vandalised the RAF planes said that they were used to refuel Israeli bombers, which is impossible as they use different refuelling systems.

If people want to die for a cause, they have a right to do it.

And equally if they can't look at hunger strikers through history and see - it doesn't work, the Government doesn't bend, you might get notoriety for your cause but you will still die... then so be it.

We've got the chief of NATO saying that Europe has to be prepared for the real risk of war with Russia within the next five years and then you've got a bunch of idiots vandalising our military equipment.

I mean, Russia must be bloody delighted that they're doing their work for them.

But you ignored the fact that they are enthusiastic supporters of a proscribed terrorist organisation.

Do you not think that should make a difference?