What should happen about the hunger strikers?

[noblegiraffe]

There are a group of people currently on remand in prison awaiting trial for criminal activities taken in support of the (currently) proscribed terrorist group Palestine Action. Some of them have gone on hunger strike and are suffering health impacts and some have been hospitalised.

Their demands appear to be:
to be released on bail
for Palestine Action to be de-proscribed as a terrorist group
for the UK to stop selling arms to Israel

I'm seeing various MPs writing earnest letters to David Lammy as Justice Secretary, saying that he must meet with them urgently to discuss their demands.

And then what?

It should go without saying that I really don't want people to die, and I'm sure that their families must be frantic, but what is actually expected to happen here? The proscription of Palestine Action is being appealed in the courts and I don't think people threatening to kill themselves should impact the democratic process.

Being released on bail? While I agree that it is shocking that they have been held in prison for 2 years while awaiting trial, because the justice system should work faster than that, they are active members of a currently proscribed terrorist organisation. At least one of the hunger strikers took part in the attack on Elbit where a female police officer had her back broken by one of the activists who attacked her with a sledgehammer while she lay on the ground. There's plenty of video footage of this, and I don't think the hunger strikers have condemned it. If they did get bail by threatening to kill themselves, surely everyone would then give it a go?

So what should happen?

You are doing a lot of conflating here on a thread about people on remand doing a hunger strike.

And manipulating British people to act in Russia's interests who don't even have any idea that that's exactly what they're doing.

This post was prompted by 1) you not knowing that we are at war with Russia and 2) you defending Russian warships in the English Channel as entirely innocent.

We are at war. And these fuckwits are attacking our ability to defend itself. Honestly, I think some people's brains fall out of their heads when someone sticks the word 'Palestine' on something.

If this were ISIS planning and executing attacks on our military capabilities, would you still be arguing that its members, who planned and executed those attacks should be allowed out on bail?

Here he is. Look, he's carrying a cat! He can't possibly bludgeon people with a sledgehammer!

Despite the video footage of him doing exactly that, he has pleaded not guilty.

We are not at war with Russia.

If we were at war with Russia then that would likely involve NATO article 5 being invoked, and I suspect that would make the news.

Freedom of navigation is a thing. I am not defending any nation here by pointing out that freedom of navigation is international law, as per UNCLOS 1982.

Oh dear.

Yes indeed, ohh dear.

You started a thread about hunger strikers, and now we are at war with Russia, ISIS is thrown in, freedom of navigation, and even Salisbury Cathedral.

And your OP has an inaccuracy, I suspect designed to inflame. Quote : " I'm seeing various MPs writing earnest letters to David Lammy as Justice Secretary, saying that he must meet with them urgently to discuss their demands."

What I am reading is that the MP's want to talk about conditions and welfare. Not to discuss their demands.

You started a thread about hunger strikers, and now we are at war with Russia, ISIS is thrown in, freedom of navigation, and even Salisbury Cathedral.

In response to your posts saying we are not at war with Russia (because presumably, if you admitted that we are, then British people attacking our national security assets would need to be taken more seriously). ISIS - because Palestine Action, like ISIS are a proscribed terrorist group (regardless of what you think of that proscription) and presumably should be viewed in a similar manner if they go around attacking British military assets. Or are you arguing for a hierarchy of terrorists?
You brought up freedom of navigation as if Russia would innocently send warships to the English Channel. I pointed out that they claimed they were innocently in Salisbury admiring the cathedral rather than carrying out the novichok attack. It would be rather naive to ascribe innocence to any Russian actions when it comes to their dealings with the UK, don't you think?

What I am reading is that the MP's want to talk about conditions and welfare. Not to discuss their demands.

Their self-inflicted conditions?

I am not following you down your rabbit holes of conflation.

Do you accept that your original post was potentially misleading with this line ?

Quote : "I'm seeing various MPs writing earnest letters to David Lammy as Justice Secretary, saying that he must meet with them urgently to discuss their demands."

I have no idea what specific conditions the MPs want to talk about. But the reports I have seen do not say the MPs want to discuss the protestors demands.

Indeed. Why would MPs single out these particular people who are on demand? Why not all remand prisoners?

Here’s Jeremy Corbyn delivering that list of demands in a letter to David Lammy (and agreeing with them6
https://x.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1991466726949785601?s=46&t=vKGM6xpoeW3wdlaVVVagQA

Here’s Richard Burgon demanding that Lammy engage with the hunger strikers
https://x.com/richardburgon/status/1999545833000194553?s=46&t=vKGM6xpoeW3wdlaVVVagQA

Here’s Ellie Chowns demanding that the bail refusal decision be reviewed (per hunger strikers demands)

https://x.com/elliechowns/status/1999486081818087926?s=46&t=vKGM6xpoeW3wdlaVVVagQA

So no, I will not agree that what I said was misleading.

I can't view X where I am.

I got the green party statement though.

Solidarity with Palestine Action Hunger Strikers - Tower Hamlets Green Party

At the bottom is this : It is irrelevant whether or not we agree with their tactics. We join with Mothin Ali, Zack Polanski, Apsana Begum, Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell, Zarah Sultana and every other progressive activist who calls for these prisoners of conscience to be immediately released on bail.

All the usual suspects then.

They shouldn’t have to wait in prison until 2027 to have a trial. They are being treated unduly harshly because they are part of a ”proscribed terrorist organisation”, but that decision to proscribe Palestine Action has been criticised by legal experts in the UK and also by the UN, its spurious in the first place. Their target was property and their aim was to prevent war crimes. The UK (and the EU by and large) have been shockingly slow to speak up against the genocide in Israel. The UK have quietly lent spy planes to the IDF (or maybe they were flying them themselves, I can’t remember) to fly over Gaza to “help look for hostages”… until the ceasefire in October 2025. I read there about 600 flights throughout the war. I personally feel that the UK government has lacked morals and courage and has gaslit us over Israel, and I have no faith that they wouldn’t supply weapons, data, or weapons components to a country engaged in a genocide if it suited them. Instead of feeling angry that the kids damaged planes, I’m annoyed we let ourselves being gaslit by Starmer for so long.
Why are they waiting two years for a trial for daubing paint on planes? If it’s because of the courts backlog, it’s embarrassing for the country and not their fault.
someone said upthread that they agree with ignoring hunger strikes, including in the case of suffragettes - how are people supposed to protest with impact at injustice, and do you really want to live in a country where it isn't possible? There’s now laws against inconveniencing people when protesting, face recognition being rolled out, and protesters staying in jails for years awaiting trial? What do you do when the state gaslights you - roll over?

They shouldn’t have to wait in prison until 2027 to have a trial.

"justice delayed is justice denied"

(I double checked the quote, this time. bungling an Oscar Wilde quote seemed to rather put the chat amongst les pigeon,comme certains pourraient le dire)

@Fawful in what way is their trial date unduly harsh or linked with their alleged offences?

Are you saying the same do other cases where the suspects on remand are charged with drugs importation? Coercive control? Non fatal strangulation? Possession of indecent images of children?

A colleague of mine was assaulted at work recently - a prison officer. The trial for the person charged with assaulting her is set for 2029. Yes, really.

@Fawful what is your evidence their treatment is unduly harsh compared with any other person on remand?

I’m not agitating for murderers and abusers to have speedy trials, sorry, just about he case I know, that concerns what I would call civil disobedience. But just because murderers are also waiting too long for trial doesn’t mean it’s now become acceptable. The guys whose case we are talking about shouldn’t have to wait for more than 6 months (excluding whoever harmed a person with a hammer, obviously), their lawyer thinks their human rights are being trampled, that where I get my sources from. There’s also a judicial review going on about whether PA should even be proscribed.

@Fawful the general court backlogs are outrageous, but in this case the delays are also because there are are lots of co-defendants, each with their own legal team, which makes the trials long and complex. It's difficult to find big blocks of court time when everyone's lawyers are free for the duration.

This article from August provides some insight:

There are now 24 people accused of offences relating to the Elbit Systems break-in ...

The first 18 defendants, who have pleaded not guilty, are preparing for trials at various dates, beginning in November ...

Mrs Justice Cheema-Grubb explained the crown court did not have the capacity to conduct a trial with more than six co-defendants in custody at the same time.

This meant the earliest date for a fourth trial, involving the six defendants who appeared at the Old Bailey on Friday, was in 2027, but efforts would be made to bring it forward, she said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3dp29705v4o

The first trial, which is going on now, is scheduled to last 10 weeks. The others will presumably need a similar amount of time, as will the trial of the Brize Norton protesters who, incidentally, did not 'daub paint on planes', they sprayed paint into the engines.

So you now agree it was not misleading to say that there are calls to discuss the hunger striker's demands and not merely their physical condition?

What about prisoners who are there because of theft, but they are prisoners of conscience too because their belief is “all property is theft”? They should be released too?

I don’t support Palestine Action in any shape or form. Edited to add: nor criminal damage, GBH, theft… Hope that answers your question.

Your insistence that I compare this case to every other case pending in the UK, including hypothetical ones, is a bit weird.