Should the parents of the Southport Killer face civil or even criminal action?

[mids2019]

Listening to the news I do wonder if the parental decisions of the Southport Killer reach a point where they need to face some sort of accountability. I understand that the parents aren't to blame but potentially they could have acted to stop their son and is there not some sort of sanction for this?

Once there were already weapons in the house, they were probably living in fear of them being used against them due to his violent outbursts. Having 1 or 100 machetes in the house isn't going to change the outcome if someone becomes angry because you have rejected a weapons parcel for them.

Yes. 100% agree.

We live in a topsy turvey world where a shop worker who challenges a shoplifter breaking the law verbally and tries to grab the stolen items back gets fired (after 17 years - no protections for the working class apparently), whereas well paid professionals who deem a killer 'no risk to others' get to keep their jobs. (and let's not forget all the professionals who aided and abetted the grooming gangs and rape of children who got to keep their jobs and pensions).

Public sector workers are seemingly teflon even when utterly failing to do what it says in their job description or even when aiding criminal activity and this is why so many institutions are failing. They're staffed with people not doing their job.

In some cases making their job what they want it to be, all on the public purse, thinking of whoever asked the teacher to 'water down' the EHCP accusing her of 'racism' to strong arm her - obviously more interested in race politics than child safety. There are many examples of this in the public sector.

Those public professionals who ARE doing their jobs well (in this case the staff in schools) are having one hand tied behind their back by these useless or actively malign professionals.

The person who wrote down that AR was no risk to others needs to lose their job. They cannot do their job properly and them staying in job IS a risk to others. If that person won't lose their job there IS no accountability and I think we might be close again to riots in the streets. Plenty of people identified AR as a risk, he did plenty of things to show he was a risk, the idea this could be written down with a straight face is farcical.

Really glad the parents of Alice, Bebe and Elsie are demanding accountability. I hope they have the strength to follow through on this and plenty of support. I'd donate to any crowdfunder needed.

If a shop worker can be fired after 17 years because of some clause in his contract saying not to challenge a thief then anyone working for the state who leaves someone a clear risk to others without any monitoring or support should be fired.

If no-one can ever be fired in the public sector then the public sector needs dismantling as it currently is. I wonder how many scandals it'll take before the populace decides to try and change things whether that be via a Reform government or otherwise.

Even more reason for police being involved to remove him and put him into medium to high secure facilities.

I do think the parents are responsible to some extent, not knowing the details it's difficult to know exactly how far that is. The CPS didn't charge them, whether that's a failure in the law or not I don't know.

However, we can't rely on parents 'doing the right thing' and then just sent them to prison if they fail. That's the most flimsy of safeguards for everyone else in society.

AR was known to multiple services and those services failed.

Vera Baird is saying the same - we need personal accountability for jobs not done adequately. Officials who made errors before Southport murders ‘may still be making same mistakes’ | Southport attack | The Guardian

And if officials are too blinded by 'procedure' to take action when a male presents a clear risk, particularly to females then ideally they'd be sacked and get someone in who has some sense, but failing that misogynistic crimes should be considered a form of terrorism and an 'ideology' worthy of consideration.

Agree totally. It sounds like the inquiry is laying down some hard truths (for a change) including highlighting the culpability of the killer's parents and the failures of services involved.

The person who wrote down that AR was no risk to others needs to lose their job.

Yes. 💯 Massive mistake which led to deaths of 3 children. This person is incompetent and shouldn't EVER make decisions of this importance again. The judgement shows this. They must be sacked.

Yes, the inquiry is calling for sackings of all those in the police, social services and Prevent who minimised the danger of AR or who didn't follow up on concerns that were raised. If people in the public sector are allowed to keep their jobs after making catastrophic errors, then it will just carry on.

Also the families of the girls are calling for AR's parents to be held accountable, being unimpressed by the parent's pathetic excuses.

Finally it’s obvious and evidenced that the system works against the female victims and fir violent men.

So many times you’d see accusations against anyone raising these concerns. Adding insult to injury, gaslighting.

It's very disheartening that this country granted asylum to the parents of AR and in return they have treated Britain with contempt.

A while ago someone started an interesting thread on are “lessons learned”? Because who follows up? It seems pathetically easy to respond to findings with this platitude, pay off top person with full pension, and then business - or lack of - as usual.

Yep. It's difficult not to think that someone needs to tear the whole system down and start again - police, social services, mental health, the NHS. Surely whatever someone came up with from scratch can't be worse.

Those at the top NEVER have any accountability and when they're paid so very much from the public purse it really isn't good enough.

Yes they do, was a case recently and I think southport killer's parents should face some action !

Yes, they are in part responsible for the deaths of those three young girls and the injuries to many others. The father was very obstructive, one senior psychiatrist handed over the case as she couldn't work with the father (the only case she had ever released).

That is very telling isn’t it ?

And Ive just realised thinking about it, that the male psychiatrist who replaced her, is the one who assessed him as no/low risk to others.

I’d like to see them prosecuted for gross negligence manslaughter, but I don’t expect it to happen.

I think so too sadly 😢

My worry is the police won’t prosecute the parents.

No charge = Fiesta for racists who’ll bowl in saying it’s cos the family are black. Summer is a-coming.

We’ve got enough trouble on
that score in the news already.

Either way, we need a test case for enabling parents and this is a good one - the parents were jaw-droppingly awful.

It’s awful and I feel sorry for them, but the R parents must be charged as accessories to murder.

There is absolutely no basis for charging them with anything related to the murders. There's no suggestion whatsoever that they were involved or even aware in any way.

They haven't done anything criminal. Aside from a handful of very specific examples, there is no legal obligation for anyone to warn of or report crime or suspected crime.

They failed in their moral duty and they failed as parents. But that doesn't make them criminally responsible for his actions.

I agree with accessories to murder is not an appropriate charge but the point is should there a new law to accommodate thankfully rare cases like this where is a measure of parental culpability (with mitigating circumstances)? The chair of the enquiry was open in criticism of the parents of AR while having some sympathy for their plight. It is in the light that we see the need of some sort of criminal action though what the sentencing guidelines are is to be debated.

I think this is one of the legacies the families of the injured and dead are hoping for.....accountability. I think you have to imagine the parents of the dead girls having to hear of some of the actions of ARs parents with the knowledge that they are going to live their lives with no criminal accountability possibly with tax payer support to aid change of residence and identity.

‘There's no suggestion whatsoever that they were involved or even aware in any way.’

AR parents were told by AR he was off to try and kill. Twice. They paid for and received the weaponry, because he was too young himself. No police called.

I think you’re right! I suspect they won’t be charged because no one can decide what with - racists will have a field day. Like we need more trouble on that front. Worrying.

The parents were pretty bad - they only admitted how much they were involved after they were busted by proof. They’d lied vigorously until records showed the opposite.

Parents lied at the enquiry about other incriminating knowledge till the poor judge shut them up by whipping out evidence showing what they knew and did.

They’re a startling pair (although I think they’ve split up, wife now saying she never married the father.)

The father was so aggressive and unpleasant to one of the psychiatrists that she resigned from the case. Psychiatrists must frequently have to deal with aggressive people so he must have been really bad.

It is documented that the mother made a “zip it” gesture to the df when they were questioned after the fact. They are a reprehensible pair, but I suppose the difference between them and similar parental prosecutions in the US is that they didn’t actively purchase the weapons. Yes, they paid for and housed the knives, but I suppose it would have to be proven that a parent had sat there selecting knives off a website alongside the murderer, or given them as a gift (like parent of school shooter in US).

Why didn’t they just get rid of the knives with the help of the police?

They were never married? They have lied about a lot of things. Wish we could deport them .