Pub food and more.

[LifeOnEarth]

Hi all, I’m a long time lurker, sometimes poster but I’ve changed my username for this occasion.

if you went to a pub restaurant for lunch or dinner, what would you like to see on the menu? Would you always go for classic pub grub or would different types of food entice you in? What would make you visit the pub if you had to drive. Would you even visit a pub if you had to drive?

What would you prefer on your table? Mayo and ketchup in their original bottles or decanted into ‘nice’ bottles. Or would you prefer to have your condiments served in a separate dish?

If you’re a woman, would you feel happy walking into a pub on your own? If not, what would make you do that, how would I make you feel comfortable?

Would you take your young children into a pub for a parent toddler meet up? Would you go to an out of town/rural/village pub for a business breakfast (probably via the local chamber of Commerce).

What could I offer you to make you feel comfortable?

Thank you 🥰

Proper food with good quality ingredients. Not an Iceland type ready meal that’s still in the shape it’s been microwaved in. No big menu just 5 or so things done well. I judge every pub by their steak and ale pie but a club sandwich is also my favourite.

I eat solo a lot because I travel with work. Pubs that have cosy lighting and places to sit that don’t feel like you are on display as a solo women are the ones I choose. Having an app to order and pay would also be amazing but I know that’s expensive.

I'm very bored with 'pub grub' type meals. I don't want some greasy over laden burger stacked with onion rings.
I always look at the specials for interesting or lighter dishes. Good fresh fish, great vegetarian food (not always vegan), good interesting dishes using quality fresh ingredients. Less fried food.
I was out for a pub meal today and had an outstanding venison casserole from the specials board.
Also desserts that are genuinely made there, not frozen or bought in. Great cheesecake with fresh fruit, home made interesting ice cream etc.

Why are you asking OP? Idle curiosity or are you actually opening a pub? If the latter I hope this thread isn't replacing doing proper market research and a costed business plan? As it's all very well us all saying we'd love a pub serving super high quality home cooked food, if we're not regularly prepared to pay what that will cost you to produce in your pub, which I suspect will be quite a lot with costs being what they are. Personally I'd love a pub which serves healthy home cooked veggie friendly meals for under £5 a head but I know that would never be a viable business!

There's a reason pre-made microwave and deep fried type food is so popular in pubs and it isn't (just) that the publicans/owners are lazy or the clientele addicted to cheap food, it's that it allows for a price point that is affordable by having cheaper ingredients and allows for less skilled/expensive staff to do the prep. Or the other model that can work providing you choose your location well is the gastro pub where it's more of a higher end 'treat' restaurant where people come for a treat than a traditional local. Or some pubs seem to do very well with Thai or Indian menus particularly in more village/rural locations. Or I'm not saying it's impossible to do well with more homely, simple but traditional food but I suspect it strongly depends on your location and type of pub, from your questions it seems like it's quite rural, has there been a pub there before and how well has it done?

Sorry to piss on your chips, I don't mind a 'what's your dream pub' thread but I feel you're getting loads of different answers that may be more or less relevant to your actual situation, unless of course it's just a fantasy! Mine for what it's worth is a brewpub with craft ales and a texas-style barbecue and wings menu and an excellent pub quiz...

Another vote for veggie not vegan

Interested to read that there is clearly an untapped market for vegetarian pub goers.
We have a lovely pub near us – a really traditional, cosy, log fires and beams kind of place, with a very welcoming atmosphere. It does a small menu of about 6dishes, everything cooked from scratch. From my POV it's no good though, as the only vegetarian option is usually a bowl of pasta which is just not what I want when I go to the pub and I definitely don't want to have to eat the same dish as my vegetarian husband.
I would also like to be able to match my dinner to whatever my friends are eating. If you offer a great meat burger, why can't you also do a halloumi burger, or have some homemade bean burgers (not fake meat please!) in the freezer. If you do fantastic fish and chips, why not offer tofish, cauliflower fritters or battered halloumi as an option? If you have fantastic local meat pies, could you not offer a veggie and vegan option? If you serve bangers ans mash, how about having veggie sausages as an option.
These options could all sit in the freezer until needed; I am not asking for fresh every day. Just to give me some choice that kind of matches the other menu choices and not make me feel like an afterthought.
If this particular pub did better veggie food, we would visit far more often and spend a great deal more. As it is, I wouldn't choose to eat there.

Clean tables and toilets. I always say you can tell a lot business when you visit their loo.

Don't assume that your fake meat burger along with yucky vegan cheese will satisfy any vegetarians in the party because it really won't. I love a vegeburger and I really love chips (never cook them at home so often choose them when I'm out) but I don't like fake meat and I hate vegan cheese.

Avoid too much duplication across courses. Look at your menu critically and think will this suit a wide variety of needs: eg if one of your veggie main courses is wild mushroom something or other, I doubt that person is also going to want your veggie starter of breaded mushrooms to begin. This happens a lot - it's as if the chef never considers it.

Personally I prefer to see traditional pub grub, as more than ever places are going too fancy now! As a woman, I have and will walk into a pub on my own (I remember being bemused at 16/17 when my friends didn’t want to go into the pub until we were all together, even just for didn’t drinks) - but the caveat there is I lived in a pub from 5 years old, so it’s very much the norm to me.

No issue for me taking kids to the pub, especially as there’s no smoking in there now. But as long as it’s set up for kids - a pub full watching sport for example I wouldn’t unless we were watching too… a quiet Tuesday afternoon in a back room set up for a mum & bang group sounds lovely.

The Fuller's vegetarian mains are: 1 with butternut squash in ir, 1 with goats' cheese and 1 vegan.
At least there's a choice.

I agree with this too-I don't like being 'othered' when I eat out. I don't want a salad when everyone else has burger and chips or fish and chips or whatever, I want a similar meal. I don't mind faux meat but I understand that others don't like it, but those of us who don't eat meat sometimes want 'normal' food rather than some weird new fangled recipe that doesn't sustain for long in comparison to what meat-eaters get.
I went to a pub once that did do a veggie burger but instead of chips it came with beetroot fries and salad. Just why? Vegetarians can eat chips and other veg-fried things were on the menu which suggests it wasn't a cross-contamination issue.

I have no complaints about this pub which is local-ish to me, but I do wish they'd do a veggie roast and/or veggie Yorkshire pudding option, when they have multiple choices for meat-eaters. www.railwayinn2.org.uk

I once worked in a pub which did a delicious vegetable lasagne. No fake meat at all, just big chunks of mushroom, courgette and aubergine in tomato sauce. I used to eat it all the time and I'm not even vegetarian.

This reminds me of when I went to a different town looking at houses and stayed over in a nice hotel with a lovely bar on the docks-but I didn't eat there because I hate cauliflower, and all the vegetarian choices were cauliflower based. Cauliflower deep fried (sorry but yuck) 'wings' starter. Cauliflower curry. Cauliflower (again deep fried) with dip as a 'light bite' or side order.
Nope. I think you'd have to REALLY love cauliflower to even consider it as your starter, main AND side!

If I was doing a veggie main in a pub I would do Dan Dan noodles - I make this from my simply cook kits and it uses soya mince , crisp fried - it’s actually totally delicious .( and I’m not veggie) my H thinks it’s amazing too and he’s not veggie either.

I once worked in a pub which did a delicious vegetable lasagne. No fake meat at all, just big chunks of mushroom, courgette and aubergine in tomato sauce.
Sounds just like what I'd like to eat.

I went to a pub once that did do a veggie burger but instead of chips it came with beetroot fries and salad. Just why?
Because somebody somewhere decided that all vegetarians are thrilled to bits to be offered beetroot, butternut squash, mushrooms and goats' cheese.

eg if one of your veggie main courses is wild mushroom something or other, I doubt that person is also going to want your veggie starter of breaded mushrooms to begin. This happens a lot - it's as if the chef never considers it.
I've seen it many times too. Usually mushrooms, but sometimes something like beetroot, broccoli or goats' cheese.

and all the vegetarian choices were cauliflower based. Cauliflower deep fried (sorry but yuck) 'wings' starter. Cauliflower curry. Cauliflower (again deep fried) with dip as a 'light bite' or side order.
I don't hate cauliflower, but I'd tolerate cauliflower cheese as a side dish.
They didn't put any thought into that menu.

Loads of places buy from the likes of Brakes, or are part of a chain cooking centrally, because that gives the economy of scale individual pubs do not. Fwiw, it's a really hard business to be in. Do you have a catering background? My advice would be to employ someone who does.

I like classic pub grub, done well. A good steak and ale pie with peas and chunky chips. I like weekly specials too but echo what others say, a smaller menu is better than loads of options. I think most people will agree, they just want really good quality food, well presented at a reasonable price.
A roast on a Sunday with big Yorkshire puds is a winner.
Lunches - Generous filled toasted ciabattas with chips and salad on the side. A kids menu where you get a drink and small pudding included in a set price. It’s much easier this way, imo.
Colouring sheets and crayons for kids.

Yes, we always drive as we usually only ever go for a pub lunch after being out somewhere for the day with the kids ( National trust place, visiting family etc) we also go for a Christmas pub lunch in December - I love the festive feel in pubs.,

I prefer full bottles, decanted are good too, as long as bottles are wiped down regularly. Sometimes they get abit gunky and sticky.

I would feel ok walking in on my own.
I think if the pub looks inviting - soft, warm lighting, a family feel, then that’s even better.

Yes - I have a toddler and if I knew they did parent /toddler meet ups, I’d be happy to go! Having a friendly family feel is important to me.

I don’t mind well behaved dogs being in pubs, but if I had a choice, dogs would be in a designated area. I’ve been to a couple of pubs like that & it works well.

Other things: music not too loud. Ideally ‘proper’ coffee, not just the one button stuff that makes everything taste the same.

I’m a vegan who posted something very similar a few pages back. Fake meat burgers are not on menus due to demand, it’s because they’re cheap and easy for pubs/restaurants.

Hopefully you come back to this thread with a sample menu but I’d echo the PPs that said pick something you’re good at and stick to it. At the moment you’re agreeing with everyone, saying you’ll cater for all and getting offended at anyone who suggests microwaves play a big part in many many pubs.

So far you’ve “noted” Thai and Indian dishes, asked if a vegetarian would like something gluten free 🤔, suggested gnocchi. You love colcannon, you’ll give peace to the parents by bringing lots of little ketchups, you’ll put mayo bottles on tables. You definitely want a burger on the menu too.

As for accessibility, “I’ll carry you in if I have to” is unacceptable, totally unacceptable and I’d avoid you just for that.

You don’t want to cater for a sporting crowd but you want to do Halloween events? So it’s a kids pub? Then I’d probably not go, once your kids hit 11 there’s just no desire to go in that type of pub, especially if it’s eye watering prices for the food. Which it will need to be if you don’t use Brakes etc 😅. If I’m going to a Halloween do with kids or a Christmas event then I’m happy at my local Greene King where there’s food the kids like, it doesn’t break the bank and I can catch a bit of the F1 or darts while they are doing the Halloween stuff!

It’s all looking a bit pie in the sky tbh.

question - if it’s supposedly nigh on impossible to run a pub without either charging an arm and a leg or using frozen food, how come so many cafes seem to manage it? I know several independent cafes in my home town alone that have been going forever selling homemade soup, main dishes, cake, and they obviously don’t have the margins from selling booze too.

Higher operating costs, property maintenance and running costs, licensing costs, staffing. Bigger initial outlay due to wider offering, longer operating hours.

You can rent a cheap small unit, or even buy one, for a fraction of the price of buying a building suitable for a decent pub! You can’t run a successful pub between the hours of 8-2pm but you can a cafe. You can’t run cook a decent but basic offering in the same room as the diners and that helps with the heating costs 😅

I mean, surely it’s obvious?

@BreadstickBurglar ,the profit margins on home-made food like soup and scones is far greater than the profit margins from selling booze.

Yes, I mean I wouldn't say it's easy running a cafe profitably but essentially it's a combination of lower overheads (as per PP, rent, business rates, licensing fees, insurance, staffing, utilities) and appealing to a different market - if people are after a cheap-ish simple meal, maybe a sweet treat and a hot and/or soft drink they are more likely to go into a cafe not a pub. I think that's maybe what the OP's getting at in her questions, how can she appeal within a pub setting to that more cafe audience, the mum and baby crowd, the elderly, maybe even work from homers - I think having good reasonably priced food is part of it (but I think utilising some short cuts here is fine), being open early in the day (not always easy with licensing rules), a cosy and welcoming atmosphere, having special offers or designated areas and stuff e.g. play equipment for children, but probably mostly it's in the marketing.

All that being said I think if the aim is to run more of a community or family friendly space with the emphasis on high quality affordable food and events rather than booze and sports, OP would potentially be better off thinking more of a cafe or casual restaurant than a pub...

I'm usually disappointed by a pub roast on a Sunday ... until I came across a pub in Cheltenham that lists all the sides separately. So you choose your meat or veggie option ... then add your fave veg, roast potatoes, stuffing, gravy, yorkshires. Fabulous idea.

I know Toby Carvery also does this .... but this is another level, it's not self service, you order from the menu and it's very nice food.

Also, I wouldn't say it's totally impossible to run a pub profitably without either being a gastro pub or a spoons-style microwave food, there absolutely is a middle ground, but I'd say it's quite context specific so without knowing where OP's pub is and what kind of clientele she's targeting it's hard to know, and it's not as simple as just saying it's all about quality - 'quality' can look quite different to different customer bases!

Is she in an affluent urban setting with lots of young professionals into whatever the latest food trends are and where lots of plant based and gluten-free options are de rigeur, or a very rural village where the pub will be the only evening food option for miles around and the majority of people still tend to prefer meat and two veg as their default dinner, or a well off small market town with a food scene and lots of existing thriving cafes and restaurants? What will do well in each of these places is very different!

There’s no middle ground for the OP food wise. She’s point blank refusing to serve anything other than fresh home made food, and that’s a problem.

Would people willing to pay for that level of pub grub be happy to do so alongside a Halloween event or with mayonnaise bottles on the table?

Vintage Inn chain actually have a good vegetable wellington option for the Sunday roast and a vegetarian gravy. It's nice and not many pubs do this sadly.