Moving to portugal

[ChildFreeAndOhSoHappy]

Short backstory, we have been in the UK for almost 10 years. I am American and I wanted to move here after some time country hopping abroad together. My husband is british and never wanted to move back to the UK but he did it for me.

Anyway, we were in the process of buying a house here and just had so many issues come up, everything that could go wrong did, and 2.5 years after putting the offer in we have only just now gotten close to exchange. Only, now we are both wondering why are we even trying so hard to be here? We have no real ties to the country (other than his family) but certainly no real love for the uk. So we have decided to move to Portugal. I'm lucky enough to be in a highly paid remote job that will allow me to get NHR 2.0 in portugal. Has anybody else done this and moved their family to portugal? Do you love it? My husband is highly qualified but works in an industry which is less likely to hire full time employees on a remote basis, though contacting is getting more and more popular and this is what he would do. So while we would be moving there initially on my salary alone, I have no doubt he could find work, it just may take time. On the other side of it, the job he would be leaving in the uk is not unsubstantial, he makes well over 100k, although after taxes here its meh. Anyway, can we make this work with one job? The cost of living is lower, the quality of life is higher, the taxes are much lower and my salary is still in the top 1% for portugal. Plus we have a very big chunk of money which we were going to sink into a million pound house in the UK which we won't be now so we have savings. It all feels super doable to me but curious if anybody has done the same and what their experiences were.

Can he even work in Portugal if you are the one with the visa and he is effectively a trailing spouse?

if his taxes in the UK are 50% you need to speak to a tax advisor because something is wrong. Has he checked his tax code?

Uk employment is not great by any means and def a lot of posts about finding it hard to get a job here. Also, UK ranks 84 or 85% percentile for cost of living, same as countries like switzerland and UAE but offers salaries comparable to rest of Europe. It's the worst of both worlds and I certainly wouldn't recommend working and living here to anybody. But I suppose grass is always greener and all that.

I love Portugal. Could totally see myself living there but doubt I ever will! Re climate, looking at likes of temps in Porto and Lisbon just now, it doesn’t seem that ridiculously hot? Obviously depends on where you go

It's always been one of our, if we could live anywhere where would we live destinations, we just never thought it was a real possibility. We should have looked sooner instead of resigning ourselves to being stuck in the UK tbh. The fact that our house took so long has turned out to be a massive blessing in disguise and I'm so glad we didn't throw away our savings by buying it.

That wasn't what I said - I'm not particularly in favour or against the UK. My hypothesis was that you'd have to move again in 10 years to find the next tax incentive, and then move again after that - a tax exile lifestyle. You previous post explained that you'd aim to stay and settle in Portugal, but that wasn't clear before. No need for the "cool for you" spikiness.

He isn't taxed 50% on all of it, that's just the highest band part of his earnings are taxed at. He still only keeps about 6k a month out of his gross 11.6k, which feels like too much, esp since we get virtually no benefit from those taxes. And yes, we would get a joint visa from my job with which he can work on. He can set up his own company and contract for that company while taking advantage of the same tax incentive. He hires contractors now with less experience and expertise than him who make a higher hourly wage than him so it's certainly doable. Plus, due to the tax advantage, he can work less and keep more. On top of that, my wage alone is more than enough for both of us to live comfortably on there as I'm also taxed at the highest bracket here and would effectively be keeping much more of my wages. I genuinely dont see a down side but of course people will continue to tell me how great the UK is and to stay. I've been here for 10 years, I'm not making a snap judgment and I'm well and truly over it. My post was to ask people how they are finding the move from the UK to Portugal, I didn't ask people to tell me how great the UK is bc I just know it is not. But hey ho.

Isn’t the tax rate for high earners with an income over 80 odd thousand, 48%? Plus extra taxes for even higher earners. So not sure you are leaving because of our tax system. Let’s then look at climate change. This year over 40,000 hectares have burned due to 45 plus degree temperatures.
Thats a real risk if you buy a very expensive house. Let’s now think of locals, getting fed up of ex pats pushing house prices up. Now let’s talk about education - just in case you have kids. In the last PISA results, the UK outperformed Portugal in every subject tested. Portugal has around 49 Michelin star restaurants, London alone has over 85. Portugals GDP is much lower than the UK, so heavily reliant on tourism. The job market is very poor for Portuguese youth, so lots are leaving.
So there you go, it’s not all perfect there either.

I agree with most of your points @Vivienne1000 but on the wildfires, the majority are set deliberately. There have already been several arsonists caught this year, as there are every year.

The op is looking to take advantage of a 20% tax incentive for the next ten years, after that, who knows where any of us will be?

I moved to Portugal in 2007 and love it here. The people in this area – rural centro – are gentle, welcoming and interested but not intrusive; yes, the cost of living is rising but still much lower than many places and housing is still very affordable.

Its about 40% tax as you start to lose the personal allowance when you hit 100k and tax rises to come in the autumn.
I would be tempted if I didn't have school age children.

My friend who lives there seems to think that huge tax rises are coming. Especially for high earners. She does enjoy life there, but says things are changing. This year she says it’s been too hot and is now reviewing if she wants to stay. Her problem is she sold up here, so won’t be able to afford what she sold when she left.

We have actually had a slightly cooler summer so far, just a few days of 35+, and as we’re on the coast there’s almost always a breeze.

Lower earners are benefitting from lower tax currently, but higher earners may well end up paying for it.

They only created the NHR 2.0 tax scheme a year ago, to incentivize higher skilled workers to move there. I'm going to go out on a limb and say I doubt they will scrap it immediately. But I suppose anything can happen. Tax rises are coming to the UK too you know, we have a huge hole to fill and a govt who think more benefits and higher taxes are the answer to everything. You really think it's going to work out so well here? I dont. And don't get me started on infrastructure, trains, water, energy, to name a few. If we are all screwed I'd rather ride it out in portugal than the UK, but to each their own.

Nowhere is perfect for sure, I never said that but the UK is farthest from perfect for us. Also, not sure what tax system you were talking about, Portugal or UK, but it's def not 48% for all high earners in portugal, not if you qualify for NHR (flat 20%) which i do and have already confirmed i do with a tax attorney. I do however know the extortionate amount of taxes I pay in the UK which average at about roughly 45%. I am not a mathematician, but I do know 20% is less than 45% and equates to thousands a month more in my pocket.

PT infrastructure isn’t great. We have fairly frequent water and electric outages

The inter city trains are excellent but local trains are distinctly lacking. I’ve never heard of anyone getting a local train anywhere

If we were only looking for tax incentives we would move to dubai, they have no tax, however we are also looking at a better quality of life and have zero interest in living in the UAE. I in no way insinuated that we would keep moving for better tax incentives, you just made that assumption. I also wasn't trying to be derogatory with my comment about uk being cool for you, I genuinely meant it, some people love it here, I just personally don't get the appeal myself. Maybe it was an Americanism that didn't translate.😬

I don’t disagree and things are certainly different now from what they were when I came to this country 14 years ago. Still, I’m much better off here but I built a solid career along the way and I do have a skilled and in demand job. But you’ll find that most people in Portugal don’t even earn €1000 a month, for a high qualifications job you’re lucky to earn €1400-1500, the minimum wage is €870. The median house price in Porto is €395 000, can you appreciate why the grass is greener in other countries? You live in your own bubble and of course for you things are different but that’s not the reality for most of Portuguese people.

I never said my reality was anybody else's reality, I was simply giving some background on my own situation. All of us live in our own worlds and have opinions based on our own realities, why would it be any other way? I can see how others may find it to be worse, however I was asking for opinions based on my situation and simply stating that the reality in the UK for everyone is far from rosy.

''@flipflop256

We have made lots of expat friends easily and you don’t need to speak to the language''

And people wonder why places like Spain and Portugal are not so keen on British immigrants buying properties and settling there...

I really don't get why you would move somewhere and not bother to learn the language or get to know/try to be part your local community and instead limit yourself to only socialising with people from the UK.

Funny how the Brits are 'expats' while foreigners who come to the UK are 'migrants' and are vilified if they don't speak English.

Don't be that person OP. If you move abroad then make the effort to learn the language so you can integrate correctly and it will help you if/when you need to navigate the healthcare system and will open up more work opportunities.

@flipflop256 @summerskyblue

‘I really don't get why you would move somewhere and not bother to learn the language or get to know/try to be part your local community and instead limit yourself to only socialising with people from the UK.’

Absolutely. It’s quite embarrassing really.

People complain about ‘foreigners’ in the uk taking over areas, speaking their own language and keeping their own customs, and can’t see that they do the same when they move abroad

We came to live here after 15 years of holidays, often 2-3 visits per year. We already had Portuguese friends and spoke basic Portuguese. We live in a mixed community of mostly Portuguese, with a few German/Belgian/British neighbours, and my Portuguese is pretty good having navigated several hospital stays where no one spoke English except my surgeon.

My Portuguese neighbours speak to me as they would to anyone, not slowing down or making allowances, except to gently correct me when necessary. We don’t go to British bars or restaurants, or get involved in British groups/associations - if we wanted that we’d have stayed in the U.K.

We came to experience a different lifestyle and culture. As that disappears, our desire to leave increases.

It’s not paradise, it’s a testing and frustrating place to live at times, until now the benefits outweighed the negatives, however, that’s all changing.

I speak the language fluently actually as I used to live in Brazil. I’m just saying you don’t need to speak it to get by. Cascais is 50 percent foreigners

So you speak Brazilian Portuguese fluently and still mix mostly with expats? @flipflop256

How is the healthcare system there? Will you have private health insurance? Do lower tax rates mean crappy healthcare, education etc?

I agree with you about the U.K. having a bleak future. The NHS is not great. And the levels of hate towards refugees and asylum seekers is foul.

I personally don’t mind paying tax at all if it’s contributing to a great healthcare system and education for our country’s youth. But it’s not, is it? I’m curious about Portugal.

Also is it still easy to move there for British post Brexit? No issues?

I’ve got Brazilian, Portuguese and expat (English speaking) friends

The healthcare system is in crisis - we go private and get excellent treatment but the state system can be hit and miss.

Brits now need a visa to move here, there are various options