Trumplethinskin wants his Situation Room photo because it most definitely rained on his parade - Trump thread #145

[Spandauer]

All he’s done is lie since he came down that escalator.

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5344386-no-more-musk-melania-mia-and-tacos-for-tea-the-idiocracy-beds-down-trump-thread-144

The second US attacks were mentioned (so well over 2 weeks ago) you can bet your life the Iranians split up and moved their nuclear material.

Have a picture ...

There's Rare earth's all over the shop. It not so much the rarity of it but the difficulty in processing it and the toxic chemicals involved that make a lot of places less inclined to dig for it.

By the way. Sky was saying that in the weeks before this aerial bombing Iran were ferrying out something in convoys of trucks 🚒 spotted by satellite 📡. Where did those trucks 🚒 go?

I just remembered the super gun plot (when Iraq really was after ballistic capability in the late 80s) and how everyone was focusing on that in 2003, but no one expected AQ Khan giving nukes to North Korea.

That was the original footage before they edited it. 😁

Pakistan condemns US strikes on Iran - a day after recommending Trump for Nobel Peace Prize
Pakistan has condemned the US strikes on Iran - a day after recommending Donald Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize.
In a statement, the country's government said it was "gravely concerned at the possible further escalation of tensions in the region" and said the strikes were an "unprecedented escalation of tension and violence".
"Any further escalation of tensions will have severely damaging implications for the region and beyond," Pakistan's government said.
The condemnation comes after Pakistan applauded Trump's "decisive diplomatic intervention and pivotal leadership" during the recent India-Pakistan crisis and said it was formally recommending him for the peace prize.

from Sky News.

Oops.🤦🏻‍♀️

US embassy in Qatar tells citizens to shelter
The US embassy in Qatar has issued a message to US citizens recommending they shelter until further notice.

Pakistan of course has a long land border with Iran, and it's own nuclear weaponry.

Afghanistan has a long land border with Iran too. They are not good neighbours but, well it's not unthinkable that they might help them out in extremis.

More on that convoy

www.thefp.com/p/did-iran-just-sneak-out-critical

https://bsky.app/profile/chadbourn.bsky.social/post/3lsbiym2jtc2z

So essentially over the last 2 weeks Israel and the US have managed to kill the lead negotiator days before negotiations, not destroy the enriched uranium, lose the enriched uranium so nobody knows where it is, possibly not destroy the equipment using the only bombs on the planet that might have been capable of it giving the Iranians an accurate idea of how safe their uranium/equipment needs to be.
This seems like a great military success.

MAGA seem to be crowing about Hegseth managing not to leak plans. Apart from this being a very low bar for competence there wasn’t much need for it because everyone on the planet, including the Iranian regime knew this was coming.

How are people in the UK going to react when the US demand military assistance ?

God I miss Harold Wilson.

I would hope we’d refuse support. The response yesterday was diplomatic. It doesn’t criticise the US action but was clear that diplomacy is the way forwards.

Honestly this thing is such a bloody mess. Trump is such an idiot.

I don't see how the UK can refuse support if the US asks.🤔

Oil Companies operating in ME countries advising US/UK workers to be aware of kidnapping risk.

The problem is we are bound by NATO. What if Iran attacks the US ?

@Lalgarh My understanding is that those lorries were most likely to have been dumping loads of sand to protect the bunkers underground. Apparently the nuclear material that was moved could fit into 10 car trunks and moved in sealed containers weeks ago.

Article 5 of NATO though is not a commitment to come to the aid of other members, much as it’s constantly described as such. It’s simply a commitment to a discussion on an attack against another member.

The Attorney General has already raised questions about the legality of Israel and the US’ actions, I can’t see the UK getting militarily involved unless directly attacked.

If I had £1 for everytime I say 'shit show"...

@Igotjelly I hope NATO keeps a clear head and Starmer grows a backbone.

Wouldn’t it have to go through Parliament? And there is precedent for refusing to support the US in Syria.
Surely NATO wouldn’t bind us to support a country who is attacked after they committed an act of war?

Air France suspends Tel Aviv flights until 14 July
Air France has suspended flights to Tel Aviv until 14 July, a spokesperson for the airline has said.
The operator has also cancelled flights to and from Dubai and Riyadh until 24 June.
Flights to and from Beirut in Lebanon are also suspended until 25 June, the airline has said.
Separately, Finland-based airline Finnair said on Monday it had cancelled its flights to and from Qatar's capital Doha until 30 June due to the security situation in the Middle East.

Sky News have a live Q&A from 16.45.
They're asking for questions...

"All sound and fury (and bombs) signifying.....not very much."

I hope Pakistan withdraws his nomination. Not that he has a snowball's chance of winning.

Re Article 5 of NATO agreement.

ChatGPT said:
Article 5 of the NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization) agreement is the cornerstone of the alliance's principle of collective defense. It states that an armed attack against one or more NATO members is considered an attack against them all.

Here is the official text of Article 5 from the North Atlantic Treaty, signed on April 4, 1949:
Article 5 — Collective Defence
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all; and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.
Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council of the United Nations. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security.

Key Points:
Applies to armed attacks on NATO members in Europe or North America.
Invokes the right to self-defense under UN Charter Article 51.
Each member responds as it deems necessary — meaning there is flexibility in how countries respond.

Trump: Keep oil prices down
Donald Trump has urged companies to keep "oil prices down" or risk "playing right into the hands of the enemy" as fears rise that ongoing fighting in the Middle East could cause them to spike.
The US president had this to say on Truth Social in the last hour...

EVERYONE, KEEP OIL PRICES DOWN. I'M WATCHING! YOU'RE PLAYING RIGHT INTO THE HANDS OF THE ENEMY. DON'T DO IT!

On Sunday, Trump called into question the future of Iran's ruling government after a surprise attack on three of the country’s nuclear sites.
His bombardment of three sites in Iran quickly sparked debate in Congress over his authority to launch the strikes, with many Republicans praising Trump for decisive action even as many Democrats - and some from Trump's own party, too - warned he should have sought congressional approval.

From Sky News.

Drill harder, baby, Drill harder...⛽

From AP

By Monday morning, the price of a benchmark barrel of U.S. oil was up 0.4% at $74.16 after briefly dipping to a loss. Brent crude, the international standard, edged up by 0.2% to $77.17 per barrel. They still remain higher than they were before the fighting began a little more than a week ago, when a barrel of benchmark U.S. crude was close to $68.

I do think there’s a common misconception that Article 5 includes a guarantee of a military response in support of a member under attack though and that simply isn’t the case. The reality is it’s only been invoked once, and that was in support of the US after 9/11 and I can’t see it being invoked if Iran retaliates against the US within the Middle Eastern region (an attack on the US mainland would be different).

I agree with you @Igotjelly so was much relieved to when I read the actual text and realised that there were very specific circumstances mentioned.