Been sacked for gross misconduct

[RidetheT]

I have been sacked. I made a mistake in work that could have had wide reaching implications for a client.

I hate myself. The mistake was through sheer stupidity and carelessness and rushing to get work done by a deadline.

I can’t sleep. I can’t eat. I keep crying. I’m terrified for the future. How am I going to ever work again? Who would trust me? I don’t trust me.

We have about a months savings and then we are going to struggle to pay the bills/ mortgage so my kids are going to lose their home on top of everything.

I just don’t know what to do. My DH keeps telling me he has faith in me and he knows I’ll make it all ok. I don’t know how.

Read this thread earlier but wanted to reflect on my initial reaction. And I am basing it around the fact that regardless of size, any firm that can have such a huge risk to carry should have checks and balances, and it seems your employer didn't.

To be honest, arguing whether it was or wasn't gross misconduct is a bit of "angels dancing on a pinhead" activity because at a very basic level it is possible that an employment tribunal would conclude it was a fair dismissal, even if not gross misconduct. I am not convinced they would find it fair - but equally I am not convince they wouldn't. ET's are always risky, and this one might carry more risk than usual because (a) the error you made was serious and (b) it's a small employer and therefore held to slightly lower expectations by ET's. It's not a place I would recommend anyone wanting to go to anyway, but avoiding an ET would be a good idea imo.

That said, I think they have behaved appallingly towards a single (albeit huge) mistake by a long-standing member of staff, so I don't have any compunction in saying that you should tie the bastards in knots!

So by all means appeal the dismissal, although I am not sure that is good advice. All trust and confidence in them has gone by now - how can you even think about going back to work there now? Plus, if they have put a foot wrong at this stage you are giving them a chance to bring you back, give you a final warning, then "sack you correctly" for any wild reason they can dream up.

What I would do is:
(a) Lodge a claim for early conciliation with the intent of taking them to tribunal
(b) Aiming to achieve a settlement agreement based on a mutually agreed termination (so neither dismissal nor resignation), and an agreed reference to that effect.
(c) If that doesn't work you lodge the tribunal claim and then it becomes a game of chicken - who blinks first. It will probably be them. You don't have to do anything and you don't need legal advice - they would be idiots not to get legal advice, at which point the best legal advice they can get is that continuing to fight this will cost them dearly even if they win. You, on the other hand, have nothing to lose! It may be a long game, but it can't make things any worse than they are now.

You made a mistake. Nobody is perfect. Their company isn't perfect if they have no checks and balances. At worst you are equally at fault. But I wouldn't take this lying down.

I’m so pleased you’ve decided to challenge them @RidetheT ! I’m no expert but was shafted by a previous employer…. I was going to just walk away but my husband gave me the back up I needed to take them on - ended up with a year’s salary in my back pocket!! Please heed the advice of previous posters - speak to ACAS, speak to an employment lawyer, speak to anyone who can give you guidance. You can do all this whilst looking for a new job!

Think you've posted to me by mistake.

Well done OP, must be daunting but if they've not followed a legal and defined process they'll realise their own error quite quickly.

No - I was agreeing with your comment that a settlement agreement was probably the better outcome.

It can’t harm I guess. See what happens. I didn’t mention it but my friend did appeal too. Was quite a long and stressful process for her and she lost the appeal in the end. It’s worth a try, if that’s what you’re leaning towards you’ve got nothing to lose..

I'm sorry I've no experience in this field so I'm not in a position to give you advice. I would like to add you've been 10 years with this company and have made one mistake which has resulted in you being sacked. Rather than describing this as gross misconduct I would describe it as grossly unfair. Businesses have insurance to cover them for mistakes which the best of employees are capable off. I seriously hope you find a good employment lawyer to fight your case & it leads to the return of your job.

This isn’t gross misconduct. You need to contact ACAS for advice

No worries. If I had my time over again I probably wouldn't have gone to tribunal. It wasn't a pleasant experience.

While hopefully well intended, I find your DH comments a bit jarring, so they probably won't be helping either.

This!! Spot on with the hopefully well intended...

You would be far from the first I have heard to say that. Even great cases are horrendous, and if there is complex nuance, as there is here, it's stress plus risk. To me the best outcome is less financial and more the reference. That leaves an enforceable reference (if the ex-employer says anything else they can be sued) and provided the OP doesn't lie she is in the clear.

OP has been sacked for gross misconduct for human error.

That will be hugely impactful on their future in their industry or other work - since usually that would be stealing from a company or similar. When likely it isn’t gross misconduct and completely unfair and possibly unlawful.

Having transparency in the industry that OP made a mistake and didn’t embezzle company funds is no bad thing.

OP doesn’t think they can work in their industry now anyway and is fearful to even seek expert advice at the moment, so of course your comments will play into their fear and are unhelpful given the circumstances.

Smart move. Make sure you get notes from any reviews, disciplinaries and your dismissal. Take a solicitor or union representative with you. I really hope you make a difference here. Not just for you but others they will throw under the bus because the don't have proper procedures in place. You are doing a brave thing.

Gosh OP you poor thing. I went through an unfair dismissal claim about 20 years ago and it was incredibly stressful but 100% worth it to try in the professional and keep my reputation and have a reference. I ended up settling but only at the very last minute (which my solicitor told me was quite common) - the financial settlement was huge but kept me afloat for a few months whilst I found another job. When I joined my new firm the flaws in my old role/firm became so obvious it confirmed my decision fight was justified. My situation also involved human error that cost the firm financially & I owned up as soon as I saw the issue. I was definitely a scapegoat to appease the client and I shouldn't have been fired for gross misconduct and it really doesn't sound like you should have been either so please do fight this. ACAS were brilliant as was my solicitor who I got from a recommendation on here.

Yeah. I had people I never knew and had never set eyes on (management committee) take the stand to lie about me. And my ex employer also forged documents. When it became clear to them that they hadn't followed procedures they basically re wrote documents and letters to make it look like they had - and the tribunal allowed it. The excuse was that they weren't pc literate. The woman who did that, I had never met her either - she only took an interest in me when she was trying to get rid of me.

They also forged the signature of one of my junior employees, they basically typed out allegations he made and forged his signature. He refused to take the stand (because he knew he was lying). They also broke open my work desk to try and find goodness knows what - and told a part time worker not to come back because I had hired them - he took them to tribunal as well. In fact they got rid of all the part time staff - and then they appointed the guy who caused most of the issues in the first place as manager (I got the job he wanted). But he didn't know how to do my job and it all went to pieces.

They treated the folk who lived in the project like dirt too - something that I tried to stop and when I was was off before they sacked me one of the men's sons got wind that he was being maltreated (one of the night staff apparently hit him and he found out ) and went down and gave him a hiding.

Horrible at the time but some places you are better off out of.

Glad to hear you've asked to appeal your dismissal OP. One step at a time, but to me it sounds like a classic case of buck passing on your employer's behalf. We ALL make mistakes (I cringe at a couple of mine in the workplace). Surgeons and pilots make mistakes - in comparison your's is minor. It's only money and nobody died.

In the meantime, get yourself down to a couple of local employment agencies. With your admin skills you'll be in a temp role by the end of the week. I got one of my best jobs that way - started as a temp, got taken on permanently and eventually promoted to a senior role within the organisation. I was temping because I'd had a nervous breakdown in my previous role (sales :- never touched a sales role since!)

Good luck!

No advise but see some posters have given you lots of helpful stuff to look into.
I just wanted to say a mistake it just that, a mistake. You didn’t do it on purpose and everyone makes them, if you don’t manage to change the outcome (which hopefully you will if it’s something you want to continue to do) then this may be a chance to do something new and thrive at.
Try not to be too hard on yourself x

Well done for asking to appeal OP.

You've worked for this firm for 10 years. That says that you're an experienced and respected professional at what you do. It's time to start standing up for yourself and asking to be treated like the professional that you are.

It’s hard for employer to dismiss someone for gross misconduct. You owe it to your family to make a fuss here. It could make a big financial difference to your family. Grit your teeth and do what needs to be done.

I know someone who got a year’s salary in settlement from a bank - they made a mistake on the trade, the systems didn’t pick it up, resulted in a financial loss, but they were subject to detriment and the employers made a hash of the disciplinary process.

Talk to Acas, pursue your appeal and lawyer up - you cannot just sack someone with 10 years’ service for making a mistake.

What’s is the timeline op? When did you make the error? And when were you sacked?

how did they advise you that you were being sacked?

If nothing else, the threat of a tribunal or legal case might encourage your employer to make a (small) settlement rather than being forced to confirm that all the relevant details were in place and processes followed. Such a settlement might also include providing a future decent reference.

Surely your company would have professional negligence insurance in place?

OP, the end game for this shouldn’t be keeping your job. The end game should be a financial pay out to make you walk away quietly.

I really recommend you to speak to a lawyer. A good employment lawyer can fight this on your behalf. If they think you have a shot at a decent severance package then they will just bill you at the end when you receive your money.

If you would like a recommendation of one then let me know. I have been where you are. I was unfairly dismissed. My lawyer fought it and I received a substantial sum that included the first £30k tax free within 2 months of leaving. I didn’t speak to my previous employer again from the day I walked out of the building. It was all handled by my lawyer. All I had to do was give my lawyer the initial information and then sign my settlement agreement at the end. I also received a clean reference as part of the negotiation that stated my reason for leaving was redundancy.

I totally echo the sentiment of this thread - just go for a long walk today and get some fresh air - breathe and try and relax. Then tomorrow morning, call citizens advice first thing or an employment lawyer. This seems very unfair to me personally, considering you have worked for the same company for 10 years.

One mistake probably won't tarnish a lifetime's career.

First thing I would do is forward my CV to a recruitment agency.