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Economics and politics for dummies

41 replies

overthinkersanonnymus · 28/03/2025 21:33

Please can you smart people explain to me, like I’m a 9 year old, what has/is actually happening to the country?

I read threads on here daily about the cost of living crisis, the education system crisis, the NHS being in the toilet etc but I really don’t know how this has happened and what is the solution?

All I know is I’m worried for the future and feel really uncomfortable about things getting worse for the majority of us.

What does the government actually need to do (in your opinion) so that our standards of living are made better?

Thank you!

OP posts:
ByTicklishLimeBalonz · 29/03/2025 10:54

hamstersarse · 29/03/2025 10:44

The other thing is that the mega wealthy aren't getting their money through income tax. They don't get their money is a wage slip. It is coming through asset sales, shares etc. so more the capital gains route.

By raising income tax, it is the middle to high incomers (£80k to £200k) type people. It is not the super rich taking that burden. Fine if that is what you want to do, but I think most people are aiming to be in that upper middle class bracket and I am not sure that is the target?

is that who policymakers intend to tax more? Maybe not explicitly, but in practice, it often ends up that way. The truly wealthy are adept at legally minimizing their tax burden, while middle and upper-middle earners who don’t have the same access to financial loopholes are left carrying more of the load.

overthinkersanonnymus · 29/03/2025 11:11

So in short, those of us on minimum wage and Mid earners are fucked for the foreseeable?

I worked my arse off to be able to get a deposit together any buy my home so I feel lucky to be able to say I’m on the ladder, but feeding myself is getting more difficult each month. I’ve not made any pension contributions for 3 years because I need that £100 to be able to pay my council tax each month.

Unfortunately we suffered with years of infertility but right now, I feel sadly relieved that we couldn’t have a child because we wouldn’t be able to afford one.

OP posts:
RichcatPoorcat · 29/03/2025 11:30

overthinkersanonnymus · 29/03/2025 10:23

So does it not make sense to bring income in to the pot by taxing the Uber rich a bit more? I don’t know If this is still the case but companies like Amazon weren’t paying tax in the UK at one point. And things like tax havens, should they not be banned, if you want to live and earn in the UK?

Again, I don’t have a clue about any of this stuff but if those of us at the bottom are already on the bones of our arses, how could taxing us more seam fair, when there is so much wealth just sat about doing nothing?

Im definitely not someone who thinks inheritance should be capped or people who have earned masses should give all that up, but people who have earned masses will have been able do that off that back of those of us at the bottom. I think it’s only fair that they are taxed sufficiently.

That might be a too simplistic way of thinking about fixing things, but it seems the best place to start.

It's a valid point of view!

The issue is such a strategy doesn't seem to work in the longer term to boost the economy. Successful businesses exploit global opportunities to move their operations overseas where the tax burden and regulatory controls (red tape) is more favourable. It's led to a decline in the appeal of London Stock Exchange for higher growth companies, and in turn UK pension funds and institutional investors have reduced their exposure to UK stocks, shifting investments toward private equity and overseas markets.
This weakens demand for LSE-listed companies and keeps valuations lower. Lower valuations means it's harder for UK companies to borrow for investment and growth, so it creates a downward spiral.

Take for instance the fastest growing industry at the moment - AI.
In the UK we have many talented start-ups with innovation and new technological advances. As soon as they become promising businesses they are likely to move to the US.

There is such a bigger emphasis there on growth, with investors willing to fund high-risk, high-reward AI projects. Silicon Valley firms provide billions in AI funding, and the US government invests heavily in AI R&D, with funding for advanced projects. Big tech companies (Google, Microsoft, Amazon, and Meta) provide AI startups with cloud computing resources, partnerships, and acquisitions.

To stop AI startups from leaving, the UK needs more funding, better AI infrastructure, a business-friendly regulatory environment, and stronger talent retention strategies.

This pattern of UK decline is reflected in many types of business.
It's politically very difficult to address. The last leader to try to turbo charge the issue head on was Liz Truss with Trussonomics (and we know where that led...). Rachael Reeves is trying Securonomics....

RichcatPoorcat · 29/03/2025 11:53

Walkden · 29/03/2025 10:42

"Could the UK have done the same? The consequences would have been much more severe, given the size and global importance of the UK financial sector."

In the short term perhaps. In the long term, the path taken has accelerated the UK's economic decline such that the youngest generation have few opportunities, and the country's infrastructure and services falling apart and the govt penny pinching and cutting further despite the highest tax burden in living memory....

I don't disagree with your analysis, but for the UK government of the day it would have been politically impossible to have survived it.

EasternStandard · 29/03/2025 11:57

It’s hard to tax the way to growth especially if it’s a tax on work which the NI policy is.

You’re better off getting the private sector to do the heavy lifting, rather than squashing it. Very hard to get somewhere doing the latter.

You end up with cuts as we’re seeing now.

Maitri108 · 29/03/2025 13:18

Brahumbug · 29/03/2025 10:40

As does Norway as a condition of Being in the customs union.

Norway doesn't have to enforce all rules of being an EU member.

WaryCrow · 29/03/2025 13:29

hamstersarse · 29/03/2025 10:40

Then came COVID-19 and the shop was forced to shut for months. The shopkeeper had to take on even more debt just to survive. The government stepped in with support (furlough, business loans), but when the shop reopened supply chains were disrupted, with higher costs, and staff shortages.

I'd like to add:

The government stepped in with support (furlough, business loans) and realised they didn't have the money to do that so decided to print a lot of money, taking the total of printed made up money to £895 billion. The problem with just making up money is that it devalues the money already in circulation.

Your money starts to buy you less, savings lose value, interest rates go up because the government tries to fix inflation by making borrowing more expensive so fewer people take loans, but this makes it harder for business and people to buy things like houses.

Printing money, imo, is the absolute root cause of the inflation and cost of living problem we have. You can't just 'make up money' it is insanity. And no politician will ever admit that!

All money is made up nowadays. It’s a fiat currency, that’s what it means.

Weirdly enough, we did tax the rich once before. The Victorian period and the regency before it, ie the Industrial Revolution, saw private capitalist interests run riot, resulting in all the Victorian squalor. Gradually culture began to fight back and introduce laws limiting the power of the rich. The process accelerated after the First World War and gave us the early welfare state, the birth of the NHS, etc… and the dismantling of the stately homes and servants culture, themselves a twisting and private appropriation of castle communities.

It has been done. It can be done. It results in a much better world for the majority of people. Get on with it and stop coming out with the endless excuses of the rich about why working people should enable their lives of incredible luxury and parasitism.

Sorry I got the wrong quote attached somehow and don’t know how to fix it.

madroid · 29/03/2025 13:53

@RichcatPoorcat shop analogy left out the incompetence of the shopkeeper and the greedy relative who expects to come in regularly and empty the till!

Don't forget - the rich are much richer now... and the poor are poorer still. There's a huge gap in wealth that has got wider and wider over the past 40 years. The COL crisis is just another way of saying wages are not increasing, while taxes for most people are. Meanwhile corporate profit in eg energy is higher. The relative % are all off.

Gingercatlover · 29/03/2025 14:07

RichcatPoorcat · 28/03/2025 22:54

Well that's a tricky question! I'll have a try at answering...

Imagine the economy is like a shopkeeper running a small store. Before 2008, business was steady— profits were good, customers were buying regularly, and the shop had manageable debts. Then, a financial crisis caused a sudden collapse in customer spending. Many of the shop's biggest suppliers (banks) struggled or went bust, making restocking the shelves challenging. The shopkeeper had to borrow money just to keep things going.
To get customers spending again, the shopkeeper slashed prices (low interest rates) and gave away free samples (quantitative easing). This kept the shop open, but on much reduced profits, and the shopkeeper had to keep borrowing to cover operating costs.

As things started to stabilise, a new problem hit —Brexit. It was like a major supplier pulling out of a deal, making stock (trade) more expensive and harder to source. Customers became uneasy, and reduced or stopped shopping altogether. The shopkeeper had to rethink pricing, supply chains, and store layout, adding new costs and complexities.

Then came COVID-19 and the shop was forced to shut for months. The shopkeeper had to take on even more debt just to survive. The government stepped in with support (furlough, business loans), but when the shop reopened supply chains were disrupted, with higher costs, and staff shortages.

By the time things started to recover a little, the war in Ukraine hit, sending energy costs soaring, and the shop’s electricity bill suddenly tripled. Store prices had to go up (inflation), but customers, already struggling, couldn’t afford much. The shopkeeper had to pay staff higher wages to keep them, and profits were badly squeezed.

Now, the shopkeeper is stuck with huge debts from years of borrowing, higher costs, and customers who are still struggling. There’s no money left to invest in the store’s future to build up profits (growth) and repay debt. Hiking prices further might push customers away, but cutting prices means incurring more losses, and more debt.

This is the position of the UK economy now—trapped between high debt, low growth, and rising costs, and struggling to find a way forward.

Excellent explanation.

Brahumbug · 29/03/2025 14:35

Actually all money is made up and taxation has very little to do with everyday government spending. All funds are created in the government's consolidated fund. That is where the analogy with a shop breaks down. It is like when a bank gives a loan or other credit, they create the money as a credit to themselves, that is why loans are made are assets of the bank not liabilities.
Have a look at this link. A bit technical, but well worth the read.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/public-purpose/publications/2022/may/self-financing-state-institutional-analysis

The self-financing state: An institutional analysis

This paper is an institutional analysis of government expenditure, revenue collection and debt issuance operations in the United Kingdom.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/public-purpose/publications/2022/may/self-financing-state-institutional-analysis

Brahumbug · 29/03/2025 14:38

They have to enforce the vast majority of them as a condition of bringing the single market. The areas that they have complete control over are fisheries and agriculture.
https://www.nordichq.com/norway-and-the-eu/

Norway and the EU • NordicHQ

Read a short summary of Norway's relationship towards the EU, the EEA and more. NordicHQ is your point of entry for Norway.

https://www.nordichq.com/norway-and-the-eu

CurserKey · 29/03/2025 15:06

Pmk

Maitri108 · 29/03/2025 15:14

Brahumbug · 29/03/2025 14:38

They have to enforce the vast majority of them as a condition of bringing the single market. The areas that they have complete control over are fisheries and agriculture.
https://www.nordichq.com/norway-and-the-eu/

In principle. Norway have free movement which is a condition of being in the EEA. You can't refuse to comply with the conditions. We voted predominantly against free movement hence, you can't pick and choose.

unsync · 29/03/2025 15:16

In a nutshell, 2008 happened and it has been a shit show lurching from one crisis to another ever since. There's no easy answer though, especially as Trump keeps throwing spanners in the works.

RichcatPoorcat · 29/03/2025 18:16

Brahumbug · 29/03/2025 14:35

Actually all money is made up and taxation has very little to do with everyday government spending. All funds are created in the government's consolidated fund. That is where the analogy with a shop breaks down. It is like when a bank gives a loan or other credit, they create the money as a credit to themselves, that is why loans are made are assets of the bank not liabilities.
Have a look at this link. A bit technical, but well worth the read.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/public-purpose/publications/2022/may/self-financing-state-institutional-analysis

Money created without a corresponding link to the level of taxation and government borrowing is Quantitative Easing. It can work in a short term crisis, but eventually, as in the UK, it leads to inflation, higher interest rates, and buying and hoarding of assets such as property, gold, crypto and stocks from abroad. Due to the demand, the prices of such assets soar.

Those who can afford to buy assets protect their wealth from the effects of inflation... but for those who can't, prices rise and the real value of wages falls, and so inequality is ever widening.
Without corrective action there would be a loss of faith in the currency leading to hyperinflation, currency devaluation and instability in the economic system.

Oblomov25 · 29/03/2025 18:23

Like the shop analogy.

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