Is there a time limit to applying for graduate roles?

[ASDnocareer]

I graduated in 2021 so almost 4 years ago and still never landed a professional job. I don’t have any CV gaps but I do believe there is a stigma being stuck in low skilled work, and seems most employers are probably choosing fresh graduates over me? Can any Recruiters / Hiring Managers please advice - would you overlook a stale candidate who graduated 4 years ago (no CV gaps but ‘bad’ jobs) for a fresh graduate?

Recruitment agencies have all blanked me too (signed up for big and small ones, including graduate recruitment agencies)

Always wanted a grad job so badly, I remember doing everything ‘right’ whilst a student at uni to increase my chances of getting a grad job (got a 2.1, used careers service for personalised advice, attended few grad networking events, did an Industrial Placement, then performed well at said industrial placement so I was the only intern offered a part time role in my final year during the pandemic)

Despite this I still landed nothing meanwhile my friends who messed around at uni are on 45 - 60k+, and stable/senior in their career paths. I live in a huge city too, no dependents, native English speaker and willing to work full time in office if it means I can actually land a grad job with prospects.

I’m still continuing to apply for graduate entry level jobs because genuinely what else is there to do? As much as my current strategy is proving unsuccessful I still would rather take my 99% chance of rejection when applying for grad roles vs 100% chance of not getting job by not applying.

All performance reviews are good, and have tried applying internally at my own company in meantime but that hasn’t worked yet either. Last internal role I applied for I didn’t get despite receiving excellent feedback on how I interviewed. It was a job grade equivalent to entry level grad roles but they gave it to someone with more relevant experience (fine), but the audacity for them to then offer me another role at a lower scale so equivalent to admin despite knowing I’m a graduate and internal candidate who has 2 years experience working at the company with only good performance reviews.
If my own company who can see my positive performance reviews don’t want to offer me a chance at working a grad job, what are the chances of an external company hiring a stale graduate

What is it that you want to do?

I recruit grads in a fairly specialised area. I wouldn't discount you, but I would wonder what you had been doing to keep up knowledge/ interest in the area.

It's a bit like when at uni people pack their CVs with being treasurer of the economics club or whatever to show they're keen - keep doing that to show that you've not just been coasting doing something irrelevant.

I missed this boat too! Found out AFTER I'd got a job at my dream company by other means that not being in the 2nd year of your degree is an automatic rejection so yes, that can be the case. Try networking with recruiters on LinkedIn/jobs fairs to ask them the question.

I "made it" without doing the grad scheme and now am arguable more senior than people who did.

For a while I felt awful that I was a few years behind but basically it went as follows:

1. Used current role (admin/data entry) to get into admin/data entry at a "lower ranked" firm in same industry. Worked for 1 year.

1. Tried to get admin/data entry role at top/dream firm. Accepted 3 month contract to get in the door and told them straight away I wanted to work there permanently.

1. Impressed during 3 month contract and when it ended the manager helped me get a 1 year contract in the operations team (also small step up).

1. Worked arse off in new job to get made permanent.

1. Took all opportunities for training/promotion, few internal moves. Now in fairly senior roles in projects/planning, high earner.

For most of my 20s I felt like I was planning catch up. In my 30s, it's clear I have progressed past others within my uni cohort as most took a year or two out at some point to travel/do further study.

The grad jobs aren't the only way in but you need to work out what industry/type of work you'd like to work in and research it to find out what the routes are in that workplace.

Good luck!!

I got on to one of the big accounting graduate schemes in late 2018. I'd graduated from my undergraduate in 2013, and a PGCE in 2015. I'm not sure which one they considered relevant, but the other girl hired at the same time was also not a fresh graduate, I think it had been about 4 years since uni for her.

I also later got a graduate job in tech in 2019. One of the other hires was a fresh graduate but the other was about 35 and had got his degree at the usual age.

In both cases, these were "from scratch" type positions that didn't require any previous qualifications in the field. Obviously you had to show some aptitude and interest but there was the expectation that they'd be training you fully. Maybe that's what you need to look at- positions that involve taking further qualifications. I imagine graduate jobs that are just kind of generic soft skill type work get a lot more applications, whereas those that require commitment to further study are more niche.

For my firm yes we would be unlikely to consider for entry level that long after graduating with no relevant experience gained - 4 years post grad we would be looking more at a mid-level role or then we have post-MBA

What sector / type of work are you trying to get into as “graduate job” is v broad - if you have a specific sector in mind then you may get more useful comments

I trained on the grad scheme in one of the Big 4 and also helped recruit new graduates. A four year gap wouldn't have been an issue at all.

This is definitely true at my Big4 firm.

Thank you, that’s fair enough. I’m open to applying for any graduate jobs where I meet essential entry requirements. However I needed a better strategy to increase my chances of landing one so I thought I’d apply for things I could relate my CV to best:

I am mostly applying to:

• marketing graduate jobs especially in FS, as I did an internship for 2 years in marketing for a known financial services company so thought that could increase my chances. I then did a further year in marketing in this same industry which although was low skilled work, I still assisted with cross functional campaigns and used marketing related tools. I have used Visio, Google Analytics, Email Automation, Figma, CMS and Jira. Still mostly rejections even at first stage CV sift. Meanwhile normal fresh graduates have 0 internships and still overtake me.

• ”Project support” roles - I thought if I’ve been stuck in low skilled roles doing glorified admin, moving to project coordinator roles is a reasonable step up. I have searched advice on Mumsnet for how people stuck in admin can find careers and it’s often recommended, and many didn’t have a degree. Still not yet worked out for me, but I got to final stage interview in this field once. I do have experience of working in an Agile environment from my current admin level role as a manual tester for a financial services company (Kanban, t shirt sizing and know the SDLC). I also do requirements gathering, working cross- functionally to complete small projects, used tools such as Visio, Jira, Confluence.

• I may be in low skilled work but I still make the most of every job by volunteering for anything extra, and joining extracurricular network groups to show ‘enthusiasm’. Although even when I volunteer for involvement in minor projects, I’m just not going to be handed the same autonomous opportunties as a graduate in a professional job. I feel like I’m begging for scraps of experience to show my willingness to work and it’s still not good enough for graduate recruiters. Meanwhile young fresh graduates walk straight into graduate entry level jobs, given real autonomy and overtake me.
• Also tried applying for internal graduate entry level roles a scale above me at my own company. No such luck, the last role I got great feedback during the final interview was for a junior business analyst but another candidate got the role.

The last rejection I received was from a digital project coordinator role, where I met every single criteria (including desirable) and it was a rare opportunity that the ad coincidentally linked both of my random jobs together. Still I wasn’t even shortlisted at first stage. What more are recruiters looking for if it’s not what’s mentioned on the job ad?

And was true at my big4 firm as well.

What about doing a masters relevant to the area you want to work in to freshen up your CV?

Thanks but I can’t afford to do a Masters financially speaking but also I don’t have the time and can’t defer a career path for longer at my age especially when my experience has shown a degree doesn’t guarantee anything.

Also even if I could afford to do a Masters, I wouldn’t be overly keen on the idea of writing an even longer dissertation

I was looking at a wide range of jobs over the summer, and several graduate roles in universities state that you must have graduated within the last 5 years, so it seems there is quite a range!

Volunteer for a local charity doing marketing, or other relevant roles, not too late but you need an impressive cv accounting for the time since graduating. 1-2 years is common

the audacity for them to then offer me another role at a lower scale so equivalent to admin despite knowing I’m a graduate and internal candidate who has 2 years experience working at the company with only good performance reviews

What was the job they offered you like in comparison to your current role?

Being a graduate doesn’t entitle you to a graduate job. There are far more graduates than graduate-specific jobs. Better to decide what you want to do and take any entry-level job (yes, including the admin-equivalent that you seem so disparaging about) to get there.

If you aren’t getting interviews for jobs where you genuinely meet the requirements then there’s something wrong with your CV or how you’re completing any application questions. Perhaps focus on that.

Or if you want to move up at your current organisation, ask your line manager if there are any mentoring schemes or other initiatives that would help.

Thank you, I have often thought this.

My CV is 1.5 pages long, no spelling errors, follows standard ‘professional’ template as guided by my university careers service where I list work experience in reverse chronological order with bullet points of responsibilities most related to job ad I’m applying for. The careers service had reviewed my CV too, and I’d taken on board tips from them.

After my work experience section I also mention specific skills gained (eg mention software tools I have working experience in)

The job ad criteria for the role I was rejected from said:

• Strong MS Office skills.
• Familiar with planning tools (they used Monday but I have used two similar ones Jira/Confluence)
• Experience with content management systems.
• Verbal an d written communication is clear and concise
• Takes time to listen to and understand the perspectives of others and proposes solutions. Is always respectful
• Actively contributes to achieving team results. Supports team decisions. Highly thoughtful and collaborates effectively.
• Takes initiative in clarifying roles and responsibilities and understands their contribution to project.

^ The ad requires mostly soft skills but hard skills required are MS office, planning tools, experience with content management systems (have 3 years exp), and understanding contributions to projects

For the soft stuff, I thought it’d be too obvious to copy their exact wording but I thought mentioning how in my roles I’ve collaborated cross functionally on projects/campaigns to achieve team results, developed strong stakeholder relationships internally and externally (in context of my role) would be enough.

I think you need to get some advice on tailoring your cv and application to the job you want as if you meet all the criteria and don’t even get first stage then something is wrong.

I would also decide on what you actually want to do and then do a part time extra qualification in that field. Something you can do in the evenings.

I don’t have a degree but I did a specific qualification for my field later on in life and am now doing well in my choosen area.

I think get a review of your CV. Bullet points of responsibilities are less eye-catching than projects delivered.

Also it's a hugely competitive numbers game. So don't take it too personally.

I interviewed for junior business analyst role, my current role is junior manual test analyst (not graduate level). They offered me a role as an Operations Assistant, and I did review the job ad for the role anyway to see if it had any other hard / soft skills that could link better to future graduate level business analyst roles but it had none. My own role gives me more related experience to a grad junior BA job. I think it was more the case the hiring manager was a people pleaser and wanted to turn me down ‘softly’

Yes I know a degree doesn’t entitle me to a graduate job. Please forgive me for being frustrated at the amount of effort required to simply afford food and rent these days. I’ve not given up despite numerous rejections which is extremely humbling, and all of my friends overtaking me.

My current organisation is public sector so unless you join on a graduate scheme which has a progression framework, it’s exceptionally rare to be promoted to a grade above.
However, once there is a job vacancy at one grade above you can apply if you meet minimum requirements. There haven’t been many vacancies one grade above this year though, but I always apply when they come up and always been shortlisted internally (you still have to attach CV) and answer application questions, but no luck at final stage yet. I agree it is better to take any entry level job loosely linked that stay unemployed waiting for first graduate job as you won’t know how long that will take.

I likely do have a bad CV, but I’m not sure who I can ask about that as when my friends look at it they are simply looking for obvious red flags such as spelling mistakes. I also previously had it reviewed by university careers team. I don’t know any graduate level hiring managers to know what they deem a good CV, and when googling sometimes you get conflicting advice.

Funnily enough, I applied for a mentoring scheme at my current company a few months ago and was recently informed I got accepted but I still don’t want to sit around twiddling my thumbs and waste another year of missing out on a career path

If you are in a public sector organisation is there a women's / EDI network you can join?

Have you looked for apprenticeships as well as graduate schemes? I know that’s something that’s been pushed more heavily now at my organisation than our graduate scheme.

Also, I’d keep applying for lateral job moves as well as promotions. Can be easier to get one of those in the public sector, and it’s a good way to get additional experience once you’ve got all you can from one role.

It sounds like you might have an issue with your application technique or CV. The things you've listed from your CV are quite generic and anyone could say those things about themselves. Are you being very specific about what skills you have gained through your experience and how they are relevant to the role, your key achievements to date.

Do you tailor you cv for every role? Use the star method for interviews, especially for public sector.

or the soft stuff, I thought it’d be too obvious to copy their exact wording but I thought mentioning how in my roles I’ve collaborated cross functionally on projects/campaigns to achieve team results, developed strong stakeholder relationships internally and externally (in context of my role) would be enough.

Use the exact wording. It's possible the first filter of applications is by software scanning, which will be looking for those exact words.

I have joined neurodiversity network, as well as a womens network. Womens network focuses on things that impact women with existing careers such as juggling childcare, menopause, infertility etc that impact them rather than gaining career prospects. The neurodiversity network is less active and is more for educating line managers on how to be politically correct lol or supporting parents of autistic children (a good cause).
In previous company, I was on panel for disability network too because it was a smaller company.
Perhaps it’s just the companies I’ve worked but they’re not very helpful for actually landing a better job but just a ‘soft’ way to show enthusiasm about company values and you’re eager to please

Thanks, I have considered an apprenticeship but unfortunately I can’t live off apprentice wage living in Greater London / SE. I flatshare in ‘undesirable’ area to get my costs down too but still won’t be able to live off the 24 - 29k salary they offer.

My own company has an apprenticeship paying around 25k but you can’t apply for a promotion until you’ve completed it so that would mean me taking a unsustainable pay cut (when I’m already earning a low salary) for 18 months. Once you finish the apprenticeship, you are then eligible for related roles earning around 30k which is less than I currently earn. Because of good performance reviews, I’m not at bottom of my salary band. If you move to a new role in my public sector company you start at bottom of the band.

I know beggars can’t be choosers but waiting 5 years to land equivalent of graduate entry level job 21 year olds can easily get whilst I’ll be in my thirties takes a huge mental toll, and hit to your self esteem. A post I saw on MN mentioned how easy Londoners in their twenties can earn 50k these days 🙃

I guess I could apply for lateral job moves in meantime that give me something new to gain. It’s just once you move to any role it’s a six month probation before being able to apply a grade above (it’s also luck if a ‘good’ job comes up straight away or worse still it could come up a month before my probation finishes).