My 10 year old nephew has a under 10’s contract for football academy- how important is this?

[YIP]

As Above and my DB is over then moon as am I. DN works and trains really hard abd I hope this is the start of something big for him. It’s not exactly a top club, it’s division 2, but it seems like they take a lot if you gets on and they don’t all make it. I’ve known of a few kids who have been realised but they were a lot older, say 16/17/18.

I’m clueless about football but am I right to think this is big news for DN being so young, should I assume he must be really good to get signed to the academy?

I’m so proud of him and hope he gets to do his dream job as an adult but I’m thinking statistically the competition is so high. DB has got him signed off for a premier league club and I’m thinking if this doesn’t pan out there will be so many tears.

Any experience?

I don't know much about football but have experience of several other sports and I would agree with those urging caution.
Of course it is a positive sign that your DN has been selected, but the odds are still very, very much against him becoming a professional footballer at any level, never mind top flight.
More or less all sports have youth talent identification pathways now, where they try to spot kids early who look like they might have the right physical and mental attributes. Football seems to start younger than most other sports but I think they all have the same basic idea. The problem is that it is an inexact science and they take on way more than could possibly become professional at the end. Lots will not live up to their initial promise, other kids will be later bloomers who overtake those who initially looked like the best, and of course many will decide it's not really what they want. After all, how many of us are actually doing the jobs we dreamed of when we were in primary school. A child of that age can't really make an informed decision about their future career.
I wouldn't say "don't do it" but the family need to keep things in perspective and be aware of the pitfalls. Sport is great for many kids, and there's a lot of fun to be had and loads of transferable skills to be gained at whatever level they play. But it can also be very toxic, especially at higher levels. Personally I think U10 is too young for this kind of thing - neither the sport that I coach nor the one my DC play start talent ID until secondary school - but I realise it can be hard to say no to such opportunities. That's one of the risks actually. When you're offered opportunities that you're told you're very lucky to have, others would be grateful for etc it can be very hard to say no even if you have misgivings. So you can get sucked along the conveyor belt to places that you don't really want to be,
What I always say to kids and their parents in this sort of situation at our club is to be sure that their child is enjoying the journey for it's own sake, not just in anticipation of a particular destination as they will probably end up somewhere totally different. If whatever scheme is on offer can be done without taking over the whole family's life, disrupting education, straining the family finances excessively, and, above all, is enjoyable for the kid, then go for it, but keep things in perspective and always leave the door open for the child to walk away if it doesn't turn out how they hoped. I have unfortunately seen quite a lot of children and their families badly damaged by this sort of thing, with what should be an enjoyable hobby becoming an all consuming obsession that ultimately leads to disappointment and regrets. Tread carefully.

All good evidence shows that puberty drastically alters outcomes also

Yes to this.

2 boys I know well. One selected at primary however by 13/14 puberty had evened out the competition and he went from "great" to "above average". In reflection his parents wished he had been encouraged to enjoy other sports. His secondary education was significantly disrupted as he was resentful of "failing". Losing the reputation of being a great footballer can be very tough.

2nd boy went all through to 18 at a premier club. His mother had sacrificed her career/cash/time to assist him in training. At 18 after playing youth level for the club he was dropped but not before he had seen how premiership footballers lived, which meant his attitude to "normal" careers was flawed.

He had to take time out, then do a foundation degree as he has not pursued his education. However what also struck me was the impact on his mum, she's having to grieve the lost time and question was it worth it to the family. She's now trying to get back into her career and make up for lost earnings because she couldn't work fully and support his training.

being in an academy will teach the child one the most important lessons in life: to succeed you need to work hard.
Unfortunately in my experience, if not handled well, the message that a lot of these kids come away with is actually that they won't succeed no matter how hard they work.
It is of course true that those who don't put in the training etc are unlikely to succeed (though unfortunately there are sometimes "favourites" who do), but the fact is that most of the children on such schemes will work extremely hard, they and their families will sacrifice a lot but they still get tossed aside at some point. There are positives to be had, but careful expectation management and broader definitions of success are really important.

Well not necessarily. The academies are picking on ability not necessarily work ethic. If someone is born with a natural talent they will always be picked over someone who isn’t quite a good but trains 10 hours more a week. That is why the whole thing is so brutal. Hard work is only a part of it.

the fact is just playing at school football or Sunday league will have the same result.

I personally believe (after many years on the sidelines) that 99% of academy players are exactly the same standard as very good non academy players. You can’t tell the difference if you played them against each other. You can always spot the extraordinary player though who is a level above the others. They stand out a mile. Still doesn’t mean they make it to the big leagues.

This is one of the reasons I prefer rugby - none of this happens until mid teens (unfortunately my DS prefers football!)

It's exciting news but feet need to stay firmly on the ground, as the reality is only a small % will go on to play professionally, let alone in the Premier League. Sky Documentary 'Chasing the Dream 2024' has some figures and discussions about children in academies.
I'd say it's a great achievement and to enjoy it for what it is, whatever the eventual outcome.

Except it’s the exact opposite: work really hard and don’t succeed (for 99% of them)

The system is brutal. My son is in an academy -he has been there since he was 8 and is now 16. Every other boy who was there at that age has been released and many more have come and gone through those years.
We've just been through the scholarship process where parents and kids, at a time when they are studying for their GCSEs, have been waiting for a decision from the club that will determine where they are for the next 2 years. My son was lucky and got a scholarship confirmed very early so we didn't have to go through the stress - but seeing the effect it has on people who have become friends and the boys is horrible.

Then once the scholarships start the race is on to get a pro contract and then you are living from season to season to get that next one - its not a life you would choose for them and they definitely have to develop resilience and mental strength. Also, many of them have to leave home and live in digs at 16 as they live too far from the club to get there 6 days a week.
We have always kept our son's feet on the ground and told him to always think about what else he could do if football didn't work out. However, the years of intense training and the time dedicated to it have definitely affected his school work and he won't get the results he would have been capable of. He has also had to miss out on a lot of socialising with his friends as he has to be at training or get up early for a match.
When I see the younger kids I feel sad for them as they don't understand what is coming. The best advice I can give to parents is to not get carried away and not put pressure on your son - it has to come from them.
That said, he loves it and he has had a good experience personally - the focus on his fitness and the discipline in instills has definitely kept him focused.
There needs to be more aftercare for the ones that get released and more focus on drumming it into the kids that the stats are against them becoming a pro.

And you thought it was OK to set him on this pathway that has restricted his academic education and friendships aged 8? I don't care how much he loved it -- this is an unwise, irresponsible decision.

Skip forward to 18.40 where Tyrone Mings talks about being released from the Southampton academy and the impact it had on him and his family.

I don’t suppose anyone (unless they are involved in football in some way) would have any idea of the journey they are about to embark upon but once you are on the train I am sure it is very difficult to make the decision to get off…

Agree that you should all be excited for and very proud of him BUT not whip him up into thinking it's a given that he will go on to have a career in football.

Academies across the country take on tens of thousands of kids and only the cream of the crop make it. Some kids thrive under the pressure and some don't.

If he works hard and luck is on his side then maybe he could be one of the success stories but it's absolutely not the usual outcome.

On the flip side, young kids are bound to want to be the next Ronaldo and dream big dreams of Premier League teams etc, but the wage of a league 2 footballer is still huge!

Good luck to him, OP. Let him have his moment in the sunshine for a while, then a few realistic chats are needed. School work and other life goals in terms of careers need to remain important.

I coached for 14 years. Had a number of lads go to pro clubs including premier clubs. Of those, one is now 23 years old, played for England U18s and U21s, was released by the premier club, went to League 1 and has now given up. Another 23 year old is still playing in the Championship for a London side. A 22 year old, ex England U18 and U21 playing in a premier side and played in the Europa Cup for them was released by them and has now given up the game.

If they show the tiniest bit of promise, pro clubs will grab them, train them and dump them as quick as you like. I would say 2% make it to first team level, and about 0.5% can make a living out of it, and only a few of them make a good living.

Oh is it? 😦 I was surprised even thinking 3%!

What a horrible post. She clearly didn’t realise the impact it would have on him. It sounds like it becomes more time consuming the older they get by which point, they’ve worked so hard to get where they are, they don’t want to drop out.

It's not 'horrible'. An eight year old doesn't have capacity. It's their parents' job to make good decisions for them. It doesn't require superhuman funds of knowledge about football to recognise that the chances of making a living as a football player are infinitesimally small, and that a child's hobby should never be allowed to take over his/her life and limit their potential in other areas.

I appreciate it's a difficult to decision to make if you're poor, and don't see a lot of other potential opportunities around you for your child.

My son is in an academy, he has travelled to so many different parts of the world and has a very good education.
We tell him to enjoy the experience and make the most of the opportunity he has been given. He is abit older so knows that stats and chances of making it , but his experience is far greater then he would have had if he had stayed in 6th form.

Actually my son has had a great experience. Doesn’t mean I’m not aware that’s it’s not great for all boys. Why would we prevent him from achieving his dream ? Our job as parents is to support him which is what we do. We’ve always told him that he should stop if he’s not enjoying it but he has gone from strength to strength and benefitted in more ways than getting slightly better GCSE grades - most of the successful people I know are far from academic. And btw we are very comfortable financially so definitely not relying on our son to support us 😊

He's done really well to be accepted, but there is a very long road ahead and the chances of any of the youngsters making it to the big time are incredibly slim. They need to just enjoy and celebrate what's happening now, be pleased about his success so far, and not count their chickens. Good luck to him.

It is a difficult line to walk for a parent who has a child with talent in and enthusiasm for a field where the chances of a successful career are very small. I never wanted any of my children to be able to turn round as adults and say "I could have been X but you prevented it" but nor did I want them to grow up resenting the time and energy spent on chasing unrealistic dreams. It's a tricky balance, especially when there are multiple children in the family.
I think my advice would be generally to go for the opportunities that you can, but to be continually reviewing whether the costs (and not just financial) are worth it. Watch very carefully what is happening and keep communicating with your child. Don't be afraid to say no if something seems to not be benefiting them - it is easy to succumb to FOMO if you are not careful.
Make sure your child always has a plan B , C, D and beyond, and be very careful to ensure that it really is their dream and not yours.
I know everyone will hold their hands up in horror and swear that they'd never make their child do anything they don't want to, but in my experience it's not that uncommon for parents to get over invested, and it's easily done even if you don't intend it. If your child has a consuming hobby it becomes a big part of your life too, and you make friends. There's often quite a sense of loss if that stops. It can also be a big investment for you in both time and financial terms so it can be tempting to think "We've gone this far, we need to keep going". And the kids aren't stupid - they know what their parents have put in, see that their success makes their family happy and often find it hard to say they don't want to carry on. I've seen many otherwise sensible parents get sucked in and have sometimes have to work quite hard to stop myself falling into the same traps with my children, even though as a coach I've seen it many times and really should know better.

In the academy they learn that to work hard is a necessary but not sufficient condition for achieving success. Just like real life.

20 premier league teams, 25 squad players, is only 500. Sad to think so many distraught when they don't make it.

Agree. I know at least 3 kids in the Chelsea academy. Fine if they love it but they have to enjoy it in the moment IMO as it’s a LOT of work and late nights (these kids are under 10) and so it has to be worth it for the enjoyment itself as doesn’t mean they’ll be a pro.

(sorry that was meant to have a quote attached, but not vital)

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/sports-and-active-living/articles/10.3389/fspor.2022.941482/full

This paper, which outlines the psychological effects of being dropped on these boys, also states that only 0.012% will play professionally, and that, of those 16 year old academy attendees offered scholarships, 98% won’t be playing at 18 years.

Of the 1.5 million boys who play organized youth football (soccer) in England, only ~180 will be signed professionally by a Premier League club, a success rate of 0.012% (Calvin, 2017). In 2011, 13,612 boys made up the professional football academy system in England. Despite this, 50% of all academy players leave the system before they are 16 (Premier League, 2012). Furthermore, ~98% of players awarded with an academy scholarship by English clubs at 16 are no longer playing in the top five tiers of English football at 18 (Calvin, 2017).

If only 2% of successful 16 year olds at an academy are still playing at 18, why are academies even allowed to seduce under 10s (and their parents)?

It’d be interesting to find out the comparative stats of 20 year olds playing high level football in the UK - who came through an academy vs who came through the conventional club system.

Im highly wary of parents - and unethical coaches - who project adult motivations and training schedules onto young children. Not just in sport, that includes young academic or music prodigies studying or playing for hours because “love it”. They tend to be feted as children but things don’t go well in adulthood.

Of course, an 8 year old who is good at football is going to say he wants to play professionally as an adult. But joining an academy, playing and travelling and training to the detriment of other sports and activities is pointless before puberty, especially when it seems that only 2% of successful 16 year old academy players are still playing at a high level 2 years later. What’s wrong with joining a local club and progressing organically through there?

I know a little about this as a family member owns a football club. I am good friends with some PL players, their kids (some of whom are Academy lads) and work with Academy players. It's incredibly hard and I have had many conversations about the pros and cons.

There was a great series on channel 4 (last year I think) about the Crystal Palace Academy. Your family may want to watch it. It gave a really good insight into the reality of the Academy program - many of the lads were younger than your DN.