Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

When did marrying a cousin become socially unacceptable?

479 replies

LionBird · 07/12/2024 08:12

I'm a big Agatha Christie fan and noticed there are quite a few references to cousins being in a relationship. I'm rereading Taken at the Flood currently, which is set in 1946, and the main character is engaged to her cousin and nobody seems to think it's strange! Obviously it was quite common in royal circles too in the 19th century but post-WW2 isn't that long ago so I'm not sure how and when it became unacceptable to have a relationship with a cousin - can anyone shed some light on this?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 07/12/2024 09:05

LionBird · 07/12/2024 08:12

I'm a big Agatha Christie fan and noticed there are quite a few references to cousins being in a relationship. I'm rereading Taken at the Flood currently, which is set in 1946, and the main character is engaged to her cousin and nobody seems to think it's strange! Obviously it was quite common in royal circles too in the 19th century but post-WW2 isn't that long ago so I'm not sure how and when it became unacceptable to have a relationship with a cousin - can anyone shed some light on this?

Presumably, once it became known that marrying a first cousin can considerably increase the likelihood of inherited disabilities or other health conditions.

Though even before DNA evidence, I think it was fairly well known that ‘inbreeding’ was not a good thing.

NetZeroZealot · 07/12/2024 09:06

My cousin married a cousin - not first cousins though.
they have 2 amazing & healthy adult kids.

Tortiemiaw · 07/12/2024 09:07

My grandparents were first cousins. As far as we're aware, we're all OK health wise but it did make me wary as I got older and had my own kids

ElsaLion · 07/12/2024 09:07

Consanguinity (married between cousins) has been banned by the (Catholic) Church since pre-medieval times. Historically, royal families and the aristocracy had to seek a papal dispensation to marry someone, if they were more closely related than second cousins.

OpheliaWasntMad · 07/12/2024 09:07

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 07/12/2024 08:59

In Europe, cousin marriage was prohibited by the Church by about 900 AD. Parish priests often kept a ‘kin book’ to ensure that people did not marry their cousins ( which included second cousins).

In medieval Europe, ‘consanguinity’ was often used as a ground for dissolving a marriage ( as divorce was not possible). The most famous example is probably Eleanor of Aquitaine and Louis of France; she then married Henry II of England.

The problems of inbreeding were well known, farmers took pains to buy or exchange rams , bulls and boars so that the flocks were continually refreshed with new blood.

Yes - the Catholic Church definitely forbade it from early Middle Ages afaik .
It was considered Incestous .

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 07/12/2024 09:08

anxioussister · 07/12/2024 08:57

The more closely related parents are - the higher the incidents of genetic issues. Communities with very high levels of consanguinity (Pakistani communities in the UK, Zoroastrian communities in India, isolated farming communities in Appalachia, Small Island communities everywhere…) have higher levels of all sorts of congenital problems.

Mostly we realise that preserving family wealth isn't worth the much higher risks of having profoundly disabled offspring now…

It's only really in the last century or so that infant mortality in rich countries has plummeted. Incidence of all sorts of serious health problems has fallen. Life expectancy is very high now. Until two or three generations ago there was a high chance of dying in a war or an accident if you were male and in childbirth if you were female. In those circumstances the chance of having a child with a disability or serious health condition was already so high that passing on a heritable condition possibly didn't seem so bad. Lack of welfare support would also have made it a priority to keep money in the family.

desperatedaysareover · 07/12/2024 09:10

In ‘Jude the Obscure,’ Sue says ‘it is bad for cousins to marry’ - published 1895.

Tisforptarmigan · 07/12/2024 09:11

My grandmother married her cousin. Can't really remember anyone commenting on how strange it was. It was a second marriage though, after she had had children.

I do remember my mum commenting on the weirdness that she said he had never seen her naked after more than 20 years of marriage.

There were both odd though

WillowTit · 07/12/2024 09:11

it is a very common question in clinical genetics

turbonerd · 07/12/2024 09:12

ThisOldThang · 07/12/2024 08:27

It could be worse...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8382869.stm

"But as the roots of his family tree are probed further, the secret about his maternal great, great grandmother, Athaliah Parrish, is revealed.

Ms Smith tells him: "From what I've been told, the daughters took over the roles of the mother when they died, and they took over all the roles of the mother. It was quite common as well."

I remember reading a Tracy Chevalier book where the research she had done for the story showed very unhealthy practises in some Swiss villages in the 1800’s; fathers would impregnate their daughters with their first child. It was so common it was duly noted in the church books.

I do know some people whose parents are first cousins. But I think thst has been outlawed now, due to the health challenges.

Hollietree · 07/12/2024 09:13

It still happens but because it’s not socially acceptable you don’t hear about it.

My good friend is married to her first cousin, they have children. 99% of people who know them don’t know that they are cousins…… just their family and childhood friends know.

FreeMilkshakesForYou · 07/12/2024 09:13

MikeRafone · 07/12/2024 08:15

I’m not sure about socially unacceptable, but it can cause heart issues in offspring

Yes, my dad (surgeon) operated on a child whose parents were cousins. He didn't have any contact with the parents, but his colleague gently advised them that they needed to be careful having any more children. The dad said it was OK and that he was going to get together with another womam so they could have children - his cousin on the other side! This was maybe ten years ago, no the 40s. But the family was from a culture where marrying cousins was still common

TeaAndStrumpets · 07/12/2024 09:14

Re the Catholic church keeping records of close relationships, are similar records kept of sperm donors, egg donors etc? How awful to accidentally marry a sibling. Hopefully this has been considered.

Jifmicroliquid · 07/12/2024 09:14

My cousins feel like siblings to me. I just couldn’t even imagine feeling attracted to one of them.

Patterncarmen · 07/12/2024 09:17

LionBird · 07/12/2024 08:12

I'm a big Agatha Christie fan and noticed there are quite a few references to cousins being in a relationship. I'm rereading Taken at the Flood currently, which is set in 1946, and the main character is engaged to her cousin and nobody seems to think it's strange! Obviously it was quite common in royal circles too in the 19th century but post-WW2 isn't that long ago so I'm not sure how and when it became unacceptable to have a relationship with a cousin - can anyone shed some light on this?

Knowledge of genetics. Charles Darwin married his cousin Emma Wedgewood

Menstrualcycledisplayteam · 07/12/2024 09:17

SoNiceToComeHomeTo · 07/12/2024 08:59

Strange that the marriage is legal then if the science says no.

It's an election issue - certain cultures still favour cousin marriages. Political parties won't risk losing those communities votes. But, yes, it should absolutely be illegal.

JaninaDuszejko · 07/12/2024 09:19

anothercupplease · 07/12/2024 08:40

Yep and that’s why they all had haemophilia.

It was quite common in those days to keep the blood line pure and they most likely had never met each other before hand.

They had hæmophilia because Victoria's father was 51 when she was born after the scramble to produce a legitimate child after the death of Princess Charlotte in childbirth.

LEWWW · 07/12/2024 09:19

The only cousins I know who married had only one child who died due to genetic issues, they then decided not to risk having anymore. They are of the older generation though where it wasn’t so frowned upon. I suppose we as a society now know that it isn’t a good idea, the science speaks for itself, and when you know better, you do better.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 07/12/2024 09:22

TeaAndStrumpets · 07/12/2024 09:14

Re the Catholic church keeping records of close relationships, are similar records kept of sperm donors, egg donors etc? How awful to accidentally marry a sibling. Hopefully this has been considered.

It hasn't, unfortunately. Radio 4 series The Gift has featured many unintended consequences of DNA testing on Ancestry etc including unexpected relationships.

jellybe · 07/12/2024 09:24

My husbands grandparents were cousins - they married in the forties. I must admit I was surprised when I learnt this and found it a bit icky. All three of their children have had health issues but not sure if it's due to cousin marriage or poor health due to life style.

TeaAndStrumpets · 07/12/2024 09:24

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g Oh dear!

Menstrualcycledisplayteam · 07/12/2024 09:24

JaninaDuszejko · 07/12/2024 09:19

They had hæmophilia because Victoria's father was 51 when she was born after the scramble to produce a legitimate child after the death of Princess Charlotte in childbirth.

This just isn't accurate. Haemophilia is common historically across the royal families of Europe - look at the Romanovs. Why? Because they're all inbred! Haemophilia is genetic, not age-determined (unlike something like Downs Syndrome).

Nolegusta · 07/12/2024 09:27

NetZeroZealot · 07/12/2024 09:06

My cousin married a cousin - not first cousins though.
they have 2 amazing & healthy adult kids.

That proves nothing though, much bigger numbers are needed to make meaningful statements. The fact is that cousin marriage is known* *to iincrease the risk of genetic/medical conditions.
It's like saying 'my granny smoked and didn't get cancer so smoking doesn't cause cancer'.

JC03745 · 07/12/2024 09:27

I used to volunteer at a school for special needs children. The amount of children with genetic issues, where the parents were related, was astounding. Consanguineous marriage is much higher in some communities.

2 families at the school were not only related, but all 4 parents were too. It was unclear if the parents were all cousins, or potentially more closely related! Between them, they had 7 children that survived to get to school age- all with profound disabilities. When I left there, 1 mother was pregnant yet again.

ShaggyPutItOnWhatAPongItGaveHimTheShakesNShivers · 07/12/2024 09:28

Agapornis · 07/12/2024 08:41

I grew up near a religious Christian community that only marries within. A one-off cousin marriage could be okay, but generation after generation is really bad - they have so many kids with Down's syndrome and various other genetic issues. They're very 'the lord provides' so no genetic counselling.

Doesn't help that contraception was frowned upon by them until very recently, so having 5-10 children was common. The more you dip into the genetic pool, the higher your chances of problems.

Thankfully since the 2000s they've started to move around a bit for studying, so that has widened the gene pool (there's a uni specifically for these religious communities, not the UK).

The children having Down's may very well be as a result of their parents' consanguinous marriage; but if they're very religious as you describe, they would also be highly unlikely to consider an abortion as an option when they discovered that they were going to have a child with Down's, unlike a very large proportion of non-religious folk.