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Becoming a barrister- explain it to me in simple terms!

42 replies

Thingsthatgo · 16/11/2024 10:48

Hello
My teen DS has expressed that he would like to become a barrister. We do not have anyone in our immediate family with a 'normal' career as we all started our own businesses, so I don't have much in the way of contacts.
DS attends a fairly bog standard secondary school, but is doing very well (predicted all 9s for GCSE). He loves history and would like to study that at University or Law.
Now, please could someone tell me step by step the routes to becoming a barrister. I understand it's a long and expensive slog, but I don't know the process. Please tell me the pitfalls, and the pros and cons, the exams he will have to take and how that works. Please explain it to me like I'm 5 years old!

OP posts:
IamChocLover · 16/11/2024 18:19

Follow William Peake on LinkedIn - he does great posts about the legal profession. My friend is a KC - it's very very intense and I can't remember the last time he wasn't working.

wigjockey · 16/11/2024 18:25

Youthiswastedontheyoung · 16/11/2024 18:16

Are barristers minted?

It depends on the area and seniority. And whether they are any good. The majority don't earn a as much as you might expect.

Areas that sound dull like tax attract fewer applicants and you can make loads of money. Criminal barristers have been on strike recently because they were making so little (often less than minimum wage once they take off their costs). Generally working in a commercial area with companies paying your bills will pay better than areas where individuals are paying you.

There is an annual earning survey published. I will see if I can find a link.

FrodoBiggins · 16/11/2024 18:26

Youthiswastedontheyoung · 16/11/2024 18:16

Are barristers minted?

Completely depends on area of work (as well as the usual, how many hours you choose to do, seniority, etc). Anything from barely/below minimum wage to seven figures a year.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

wigjockey · 16/11/2024 18:26

I've found this from 2020

www.thelawyer.com/issues/l2b-online/barrister-salary/#

wigjockey · 16/11/2024 18:31

When looking at those earnings figures it is worth bearing in mind that those will be before the costs of practice are taken out. That is typically around 25-33% of what you earn but can be more. You have to pay for your room, your clerks, insurances, practising certificate, books/online subscriptions, travel to courts, etc.

And there is no pension, annual leave or sick pay. So the headline earnings figures can't easily be compared to a salary.

Manchesteruser · 16/11/2024 18:31

My husband hadn't got connections when he started. He didn't go to a boarding school etc and he's still successful.

It still is a very white, male, private school profession. Him and his colleagues are level headed, academic people though.

His work more is more reactive than solicitors, which is what he likes. For me that'd be too stressful.

I hope that's useful.

Manchesteruser · 16/11/2024 18:33

It's not financially anywhere near what people assume apart from some areas or QC etc. There are a lot of costs and work can be cancelled last minute.

carolineofcanton · 16/11/2024 18:36

MiniStormInATeacup · 16/11/2024 13:19

Nothing to add but how sad that this is still a career (among many others) that require contacts to get a pupillage rather than the merits of the person applying.

On the flip side, it does control the number of candidates for a pupillage.

Youthiswastedontheyoung · 16/11/2024 18:37

I paid a direct access barrister for a private family law case. She was charging way in excess of £1000 p/h.

Words · 16/11/2024 18:42

Also consider the CPS maybe.

Obviously it is criminal law exclusively and that is notoriously badly paid at the independent bar. But all CPS staff including barristers ( crown advocates) are civil servants so the benefits and job security are potentially more appealing than being self-employed.

It's possible to gain internal traineeships for the Bar from within the CPS.

SweetSakura · 16/11/2024 18:48

Please don't overthink the lack of connections.
My dad was a fairly eminent barrister and had a few "friends" at law school who wanted to be barristers and used to try and get me to use that connection. Even if we had been tempted his chambers would never have tolerated it even for mini pupillages- you had to apply and be interviewed like everyone else.

I am lawyer in a different field and make sure the work experience in my team is on an application basis, and applications are assessed based on merit.

And have some kind of financial cushion to get you through pupillage (and criminal law requires barristers to be funded by family or similar or be prepared to absolutely scrape by - it's a scandal noone seems to care about)

terrichild · 16/11/2024 19:03

My daughter is a barrister and has ‘been on her feet’ as they call it for almost 30 years. It is not true to say you need connections to get a pupilige or into chambers. Connections in your chosen career will no longer get you a job if you’re not good enough. She tells me that getting a pupillage nowadays is beyond difficult because of the amount looking to get one. She is in a very good chambers but earns nothing like you read about. And being a criminal law barrister after all your expenses are taken off is almost minimum wage. Yes the top barristers will earn a lot but that’s a small band unless they are in a very lucrative area. My daughter went into it to do criminal law but couldn’t afford to stay in that area so went to another one. As for a woman being a barrister, it is so difficult when you combine it with haveing children. The hours are erratic and long and also you can spend hours prepping a case and then it doesn’t go ahead and you don’t get paid! Too many tv shows make it look far different than the reality!

DancingNotDrowning · 16/11/2024 19:11

I qualified 25 years ago, no contacts, good academics.

even 25 years ago there were real efforts being made for fair and transparent recruitment into chambers. I would not be concerned about not having contacts, although they are helpful in terms of navigating expectations/ requirements rather than a foot in the door.

I left after 5 years. I had some time off set up and sold an extremely successful company and now work in house as a corporate lawyer. I didn’t cross qualify.

I loved my time at the bar, it was terribly good fun and interesting work, but the pay was terrible, working conditions laughable and I have zero regrets at where life has taken me.

BlueyDragon · 16/11/2024 19:37

I’m a qualified barrister but ended up leaving because criminal practice only pays the criminals! I now work in financial crime prevention in financial services and wouldn’t be where I am without the qualification. It teaches resilience, professionalism and independence. As a PP said, I’d go back like a shot if I could but what I’m doing now has immeasurably better job security, work-life balance and pay and benefits.

Others have written above about the route in. It is less white old boy network than it was and pupillage is paid (it wasn’t in my day). Commercial and tax law pays better than criminal and family but you do less court work so if the advocacy aspect is the attraction then those are the fields to go for. They are also (IME) the less bothered about where you did your degree, my fellow pupils had degrees from a wide variety of universities. Do as many mini pupillages as possible but many aren’t available until 18. Many chambers (groups of working barristers who share facilities) have formal schemes so start by working out what area of law and then what chambers would offer mini-pupillages. The Inns of Court (like school houses in Harry Potter both in function and aesthetic!) are very keen to make the profession more diverse and offer much more support.

There are some aspects to the profession that are quite odd if you haven’t been in that sort of world before. In addition to the degree, conversion course if you need it, post graduate diploma and pupillage you also need to be a member of an Inn of Court and to eat a prescribed number of dinners at your Inn. It’s a comparatively small cost; but it is also very 19th Century. Wig and gown also cost; you can have these from the point you are Called by your Inn, which is after you have completed your post graduate diploma. Again the more work experience your DC can get the less odd all this will feel.

And I’d suggest your DC does whatever degree they most enjoy. The conversion is hard work but it’s only a year (although more expense).

Thingsthatgo · 16/11/2024 19:54

This is all so informative. Thank you so much.
DS is definitely not in it for the money, (although I appreciate he will need enough to get by).

OP posts:
PatChaunceysFruitCake · 16/11/2024 20:07

Thingsthatgo · 16/11/2024 17:19

@FrodoBiggins thank you. So from what I understand, if DS wanted to study history at degree level, he would need to do his degree, then law conversion (one year), then the Bar (one year?) then pupillage which is like apprenticeship? And from what you said he can potentially (if he's very lucky) secure a pupillage position before committing to the Bar?

Yes, I did a law conversion but that was back when it was so much cheaper. Studying history sounds so interesting but as you clearly understand it means an extra year to qualify which means it's a more expensive route.

I love having a non law degree but I wouldn't take that route now due significant extra costs. A quick google tells me fees are ~£13k now for a conversion plus living costs.

Words · 16/11/2024 20:08

I felt the same at his age, ( in a different but highly specialised and poorly paid speciality) but if he wants at some stage to settle down with a partner, money will inevitably be an issue.

Do encourage him to look at the Crown Prosecution Service website.

Also encourage him to go to court and see some trials in progress.

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