Page 33 | Do you need your parent/s to die before April 2026? *MNHQ adding content warning mentions suicide*

Spatulation · 2024-10-30T23:18:26+00:00

Absolutely reeling that we're losing the farm that my grandfather bought, my father expanded and my son hoped to takeover. The budget today means that we'll owe £1000000 in tax and we won't be able to get a mortgage as that's 5 times our annual income and over 35000 times bigger than last year's profit. We own soil. That's it. Agriculture has the highest suicide rate in any profession - sadly I can see it hitting an all time high in the next 18 months. My father (83) is already talking about it.

Feelingathomenow · 31/10/2024 12:45

I’m so sorry to hear this, unfortunately, yes I could see this played out across many farmers and indeed business owners who will not be able to sell any part of their business to raise funds. They might have a business worth millions on paper but be unable to release any significant cash.

Unfortunately there’s a lot of really stupid people cheering this shit on because they can’t comprehend the concept of being asset rich and cash poor. You watch in a couple of years there will suddenly be a mechanism where you can hand land and businesses over to the Government at drastically reduced valuations to settle these debts.

When farmers just think fuck it stop farming where do these idiots who belong in 6th form common rooms think their food is coming from? Where are the SMEs who are going to employ them and pay their vastly inflated minimum wage.

I hope you and your family are OK - please get your Dad to speak to his GP. Do the NFU have a helpline? Failing that the Samaritans.,please also write to your MP setting out what you have said here this shameful decision needs to be reversed,

Aliciainwunderland · 31/10/2024 12:46

Daisymay6 · 31/10/2024 12:38

Because the land isn't available to be bought .
Once more becomes available
More families have a chance ,and then in turn have their family working on the land .
What's good for the goose .
You can't have it all ways ..give others a chance to make a living too

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So you will be becoming a farmer? How many people do you know who will now become farmers?

MrsSlocombesCat · 31/10/2024 12:46

I genuinely don't understand how farmers are not well off. I had a friend who was married to a farmer, he worked for his dad, a family farm. He and his brother owned houses and paid off the mortgage with their bonuses each year. However I do agree that farmers should have relief from inheritance tax. It should only apply if the farm is sold in my opinion.

Secradonugh · 31/10/2024 12:48

MrsSkylerWhite · 31/10/2024 10:09

Lost sympathy for farmers when the vast majority voted for Brexit.

They were lied to, like everyone else was. Personally I voted remain, full in the knowledge that I was being lied to. It was all about messaging, and Leave was a louder message by far. Fishermen were also massively lied to.

ConsuelaHammock · 31/10/2024 12:48

I’m done! Too many ignorant townies on here

Do you need your parent/s to die before April 2026? *MNHQ adding content warning mentions suicide*

PuddlesPityParty · 31/10/2024 12:49

Happyher · 31/10/2024 12:35

If your on X (twitter) read the thread that Dan Neidle has written on this
https://x.com/danneidle?s=21&t=3D6KAnwoh_A-QZuMZnv-Cw

I have little understanding of it but there may be somethings here that reassure you

Great thread.

peanutbuttertoasty · 31/10/2024 12:50

EasternStandard · 31/10/2024 12:43

Idk I think many see Reeves as getting everything right, on here anyway

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They cannot see beyond the end of their nose (which they’d willingly cut off to spite their face)

StealthilyEmbraceTheSilkyBeans · 31/10/2024 12:50

This reply has been withdrawn

Removed at poster's request

Ambidex · 31/10/2024 12:50

MrsSlocombesCat · 31/10/2024 12:46

I genuinely don't understand how farmers are not well off. I had a friend who was married to a farmer, he worked for his dad, a family farm. He and his brother owned houses and paid off the mortgage with their bonuses each year. However I do agree that farmers should have relief from inheritance tax. It should only apply if the farm is sold in my opinion.

A small family farm supporting three families (the 2 brothers' and their dad's) is a rare thing ! Without knowing the full financial picture I wouldn't be holding that up as anything more than anecdotal.

unrsnblyannoyd · 31/10/2024 12:51

OP some of the responses you've had are shockingly awful, ignorant, and cruel. Selling off "portions" of your family farm is laughable; nobody wants to farm (wonder why...) and how do you split up established farmland and still feed the nation is beyond me. I don't know what the answer is, I wish I did, but please know some of us understand how much you, your Dad, the generations that have come before you to build that farm have done for us and we are grateful. I fear for the future of our country as soon we will have a complete inability to feed our own. Would your Dad take some legal advice about whether he could build a business partnership with you, rather than inheritance whether this may offer any benefits? (I don't know if it would but may be worth a conversation with a good lawyer - it will be cheaper than the bill for this!)

WhitegreeNcandle · 31/10/2024 12:51

Haven’t read the whole thread but am also a farmer. Huge huge sympathies for you and your family. However, there are things springing into action today. Our accountant has already been on the phone today looking at options. Get on the phone to the NFU, the accountant, the land agent to see what can be done.

Feelingathomenow · 31/10/2024 12:52

ConsuelaHammock · 31/10/2024 12:36

I can’t see this actually becoming law. Even dumb fuck labour supporters aren’t stupid enough to bite the hand that literally feeds them.

Unfortunately, having seen some of the posts on here today which make my Goldfish look like Mensa Material I doubt any of them can think it’s through. They’re too busy wetting themselves that anyone who has worked hard/taken risks and/or is intelligent are going to suffer! Labour could organise a piss up on a brewery. Let’s face it when, within days Two Tier kier said they need to release loads from prison (quite a few of which immediately reoffended) then swiftly followed it up by imprisoning slightly squiffy people coming back from the bingo we knew they were struggling to find a brain cell between them

Secradonugh · 31/10/2024 12:52

MrsSlocombesCat · 31/10/2024 12:46

I genuinely don't understand how farmers are not well off. I had a friend who was married to a farmer, he worked for his dad, a family farm. He and his brother owned houses and paid off the mortgage with their bonuses each year. However I do agree that farmers should have relief from inheritance tax. It should only apply if the farm is sold in my opinion.

I think the past tense is the issue here. In 30 years farming has become less and less profitable, because we could get goods from abroad. Now with all EU grants gone it's even harder for them. Farmers used to be able to afford private schools for their children. We've demanded cheap food.

Farmersweeklyreader · 31/10/2024 12:52

GinnyPiggie · 31/10/2024 12:40

Not sure if this was mentioned earlier in the thread, but apparently this will only affect the top 25% of farms (who are worth above £1 million). I would guess that would be OP's family in top 5% of farming families?

Wondered what the OP thought about this, as it was being said on the news this morning that this would only really impact well off landowners (and if OP's family DID sell 1/6 of their land for the tax, they would still be in top 10% or so?).

Any farmland worth £1 million or below is not a viable “full time” farm. £1million does not buy you a farm where a farmer can make a full time living from it. It will more likely buy you a small holding or some land but not something you could work on without having another job or income to prop it up. Think “hobby” farming.

MrsJoanDanvers · 31/10/2024 12:52

RedToothBrush · 31/10/2024 12:13

Ooo yes, farms being owned by investment bankers that sounds like a GREAT step forward for food security and reducing inequality.

Can't see what would go wrong with that.

I mean, the feudal system worked so fucking well.

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But isn’t that why this loophole closure is being brought in? Because people are buying huge swathes of land to ‘farm’ to avoid IHT? Blame those people-exactly why Clarkson bought his ‘farm’. As I said, farms get an extra £1m relief on top of that available to non farmers so most small family farms will not pay anything. Someone was talking about crofting-I can’t see how a Scottish Croft will be paying IHT.

ComingBackHome · 31/10/2024 12:53

My PIL were farmers.
They were, as most farmers, assets rich and cash poor.
In their case, cash poor meant living in poverty. By that I mean a house that had never been updated for 50+ years so there was no central heating. Dh grew up living in charity shop clothes because that’s all they could afford.
When I met dh, they were in their 50s and still struggling to make ends meet.
MIL strongly pushed dh to never be a farmer despite the fact it was his dream. Why? Unless you are a BIG landlord with a BIG farm, it’s extremely hard to live from it. Many fully relied on EU subsidies to survive. Which have now disappeared because the brexiters who pro used they would replace them havent.

Your experience of ONE farmer is nowhere near representative of what’s going on. Hence the high rate of suicide mentioned by the OP too….

ErrolTheDragon · 31/10/2024 12:53

MrsSlocombesCat · 31/10/2024 12:46

I genuinely don't understand how farmers are not well off. I had a friend who was married to a farmer, he worked for his dad, a family farm. He and his brother owned houses and paid off the mortgage with their bonuses each year. However I do agree that farmers should have relief from inheritance tax. It should only apply if the farm is sold in my opinion.

Obviously some are, some aren't.

Successful businesses of all sorts need to be allowed to survive and thrive.

Boobygravy · 31/10/2024 12:54

ConsuelaHammock · 31/10/2024 12:48

I’m done! Too many ignorant townies on here

Yep.
Townies who think farming is like an idyllic lifelong holiday playing with animals and driving tractors.

Damnloginpopup · 31/10/2024 12:55

Unbelievably stupid policy, and the money the govt will gain is minor (and will be pissed away for lesser value). All small businesses are getting hammered on pay as it is and despite the appearance farming is just another small business, albeit with a large footprint (vital to even try) Whole families often involved in keeping it going - from 3am on a Sunday morning in February to 11pm on a Saturday night in august...gambling on weather and your own resilience to maybe get some cash at the end of harvest.

Lose a farm and it's gone forever. I hope you and your family and your farm find a way to survive.

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 31/10/2024 12:55

Blame those people-exactly why Clarkson bought his ‘farm’.

Clarkson's farm is being genuinely farmed though. And he's become an absolutely phenomenal spokesman for the industry.

Netaporter · 31/10/2024 12:55

EPankhurst · 31/10/2024 12:27

FUCKING HELL YOU LOT the ignorance shown by some of you is utterly embarrassing. I'll try and break it down.

We need people to grow and farm food for our own countries, can we all agree on that as a common starting point? Because if we don't then we as a country/kingdom are insanely vulnerable. To extortion, to our basic food being witheld for political reasons, to weather, to other countries' economic mismanagement, to wars overseas (remember the effect of the Ukraine war meaning that suddenly there was no sunflower oil and the price of many goods that used it shot up? That, but for ALL of our food. And notice how Israel has been blocking vital supplies for survival arriving to Gaza? Did you learn about WW2 rationing and why the dig for victory campaign was so important in WW2 (a time when we had far more farms in the UK than we do now)? Can you see why we need to protect our ability to make our own food? We'd also fuck our carbon emissions up even more. We'd also rely on countries being nice enough to supply food without all of the harmful carcinogenic ingredients that are legal in some other countries. And so many more reasons. We. Need. Home. Farming.
There are family farms and there are huge conglomerates which have factory farming arms. Maybe some of the latter would buy up the family farms that need to be sold, if they can amalgamate them with neighbouring land. In which case we can look forward to falling lifestock welfare, devastation of wildlife habitat, and the ticking time bomb of land managed for short term profitability not long term sustainability. They wouldn't want your (processed, therefore safe) sewerage to spread on the land to enrich it, they want the cheap chemical fertilizers, which are good for circa 10 years but strip the soil of all it's structure and nutrients long term making land infertile. So the goverment will probably continue the Tories policy of pumping untreated sewerage into the sea, so yay for continuing to kill off biodiversity in the seas AND on land, it's a 2 for 1 deal! They also won't want the poo that livestock produce in order to rot it and return it to the land either, and in all honesty fuck knows what they're going to do with that - ship it to china at great cost which they'll pass on to the consumer, no doubt.
What's more likely though is that the farming land will be sold off for housing developments. We do need more housing, but with less and less home produced goods we're more and more vulnerable. We already rely on supplementing home grown with imports to feed our population. Making it less home grown and more imported is a fucking stupid idea - see point 1.
I'm going to shout this one loudly for those at the back: FARMS ARE ASSET RICH AND PROFIT POOR. That £6,000,000 farm house and land is producing income below minimum wage for 4 people. It's not because they are mis-managing their land, it's the reality of farm income. We want British Milk but we don't want to pay much for it. We want lamb for our Sunday roast, but we don't see that some years farmers make a loss on their lambs because of the reality of livestock pricing markets. We want our pumpkins to carve, but we don't see the gaping holes in the farm's accounts because their pumpkin or sunflower crop failed this year. Farming is tough work every day in all weathers for not much money and a shit ton of stress.

The benefits to this country of having our own farms are not how much profit they make - the benefits are that we have food production with low carbon footprint in a sustainable way and at least some resilience to international forces. See point 1 again. And guess what - they can't produce that food if they have to sell off those assets.

This budget decision WILL kill off more of our farms, and leave us with lower welfare animal products, either due to factory farming in the UK or the need to import it from countries with lower welfare requirements. It is SUCH a shit move for this country, apparently aimed at closing the loopholes that enable a few rich folk to avoid paying inheritance tax, when in reality it's going to hit farming families, which is NOT the same demographic.

I'm not from a farming family (I just know the countryside better than some of you), and I am a Labour voter. It's a fucking devastating move for our country's future, but one which the full effects of won't be felt by the country within the next 5 or even 10 years, and will be easily denied because there will be too many other factors to be able to pinpoint this one with certainty, and even if they do by the time it's felt we will have a different party or at least different people in charge who can blame past politicians who will be retired on their comfortable pensions by then.

Edited

Couldn’t agree more. I live next to a council tenant farmer. He is not a rich Man. His kids attend the local schools (none of which have ‘outstanding’ or even ‘good’ status) Tenant farmers lack security. Given this extraordinary announcement yesterday I’ve gone from feeling comfortable that no Council would be daft enough to sell off assets like this to now thinking that this sort of policy might give the green light to Labour controlled councils to do so. And my Council is Labour controlled…

Lostmymarbles1985 · 31/10/2024 12:56

My parents always said the only way the British public will truly appreciate home grown food and the farmers that produce it is when we have another world war and our food imports are cut off. Recently I'm starting to believe they are correct.
With the amount of wars raging in the world I'm worried it will be a reality.

Coconutter24 · 31/10/2024 12:57

Willyoujustbequiet · 31/10/2024 11:08

You said..."try make the OP look bad for coming from a working family".. implying those on UC who you already referred to don't.

Unless you meant farm instead?

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OP does come from a working family hence the reference but that’s not me implying everyone on UC doesn’t work, you presumed thats what I meant which is incorrect

EPankhurst · 31/10/2024 12:59

Daisymay6 · 31/10/2024 12:38

Because the land isn't available to be bought .
Once more becomes available
More families have a chance ,and then in turn have their family working on the land .
What's good for the goose .
You can't have it all ways ..give others a chance to make a living too

Show quote history

So £6m worth of farmland becomes available to you because a family can't afford inheritance tax.

On a good year, it turns over around £60k profit. It needs 4 people to work the land full time 365 days a year in order to achieve this. On a bad year it makes a £10k loss, but it still needs 4 people to work the land full time in order to make it not a £300k loss.

If you're lucky, you manage on average 3 out of 4 years making a profit, and one making only £10k loss.

Do you have that £6m in the bank ready to buy the farm, or are you going to ask the bank to give you a loan for it?

Got that business plan ready to show them? I'm sure they're going to approve that risk to reward ratio!

And your £6m investment will provide a return of.. 0.007% per year.

Money invested in a broad portfolio on the stock market returns FAR more, for far less risk and certainly far less effort.

Nobody, literally nobody who can afford £6m is going to buy a farm unless it's for a vanity project that they are happy and able to pay others to manage and farm at considerable risk and loss to themselves. How many people do you know who would fit that criteria?

Ihatelittlefriendsusan · 31/10/2024 13:00

@Spatulation your posts are very rude. I appreciate that you are angry and scared. But thwre is really no need to be so horrible to people. You are not going to raise sympathy with reactions like that. The unfortunate thing is, that we are not educated about the intricacies of the farming world (& Jeremy Clarkson doesn't help matters) so many people don't understand why this is such a worrying event.

Is it possible that your father can amend the farm to a corporation that splits it's ownership amongst a broader family group to diminish what he physically owns?