Named daughter Saoirse - Seer- sha

[Kira22]

Wrote post earlier but had spelling errors! I put cha instead of sha. Many of you pointed this (quite rightly out) as being different sounds- I'd realised as soon as I wrote it I had got S and C muddled (I am dyslexic) but wasn't in time enough to edit. MNHQ kindly took original post down. Just spent awhile going through it and somehow lost entire original post, DOH!

In short, daughter is called Saoirse - named after the girl in the film Song of the Sea www.imdb.com/title/tt1865505/ We fell in love with the name, we pronounce it Seer-sha - the Irish people in the film also say it this way.

I know the actress, Saoirse Ronan (who I actually don't know at all/never seen her films/just get informed alot about her when I say my daughters name!) pronounces her name SUR-sha. She says herself Seer-sha is also another, very common way. Different accents, regions and all that jazz.

An older couple today were basically telling me I was saying my own daughters name wrong today and that they had Irish in their family and it is Sur- sha. Even when I said yes my dad's side are Irish (not that is blooming matters) they wouldn't have it - the woman even said how are you spelling it so I spelt 'Saoirse' and she said 'when you said her name (Seer-sha) I wouldn't have known her name was Saoirse unless you had spelt it for me because it is pronounced 'Sur-sha'

Am just amazed sometimes people ask her name I say it is 'Seer- sha' and they say 'Ohhh, SUR- sha' with huge emphasis on Sur. When someone tells me their name/ their childs name I make a huge effort to say it how they say it, because, well, that is their name!

I wasn't going to repost but many of you kindly had taken time to write replies before, so felt I should

Yes, that's it exactly @OchonAgusOchonOh.

The pronunciation of Sorcha in the Irish language hasn't changed@Elektra1.

Sore-sha is an adaptation by people who speak English. Most Irish people have English as their first language. The result is some Irish people say Sore-sha while others use the Irish language pronunciation.

The pronunciation of Sorcha in the Irish language hasn't changed

But there isn't only one way of pronouncing it surely. Accents/dialects cause different correct pronunciation of the same word .

@AllHisCaterpillarFriends
No, there are dialectal differences but Sore-sha isn't one of them.
Cha isn't pronounced sha in any dialect. Sor can vary a bit but isn't said as Sore anywhere either as far as I know.
In Irish I mean 😅

@BarbaraHoward 💯. Lots of adjectives in Irish are pairs of opposites beginning S or D. A pp is also right about American pronunciation being imported as in Kate Lynn for Caitlín. This name already has perfectly adequate English rendering : Kathleen * more or less. If you tell me to say it Kate Lynn of course I'll oblige. But don't be telling me that's an old Irish name , that's all I ask.

Hello to everyone,

Thankyou for all your replies, it is the first post I had every written on mumsnet.

I tried to keep up with it all. Just to say my post at the start wasn't that I am bothered that people are saying it' wrong' and I wasn't saying that Sur- sha, Seer-cha or anything was wrong or right and I wasn't knocking how anyone says it however they say it. I was just saying it is strange isn't it when you say your name/your childs name to someone and the hear it but say it back to you quite differently. Just meant I always try to say someone's name how they say it, as it is their name and how they say it!

I completely agree it is not at all something to loose sleep over and I was just wanting to know others thoughts on this which I now do!

I do know the history of the name Saoirse. I do know that it means freedom (and why from history) but for me, personally I like the word 'freedom' (most of the world doesn't have enough/any of it and I think it is quite relevant meaning for a name these days) and I like the name Saoirse. Yes, I am English, well Cornish actually (not that it matters!) My dads side are Irish (not that it matters!) my Mums side are Scottish (not that it matters!)

I really appreciate all your comments and different thoughts and views.
Best wishes

Also, may I add, don't think all this underlying venom for an English person (me!) is very nice at all. I know English history, it is appalling to say the very least. I cannot change it. I personally did not do any of it.

I am peaceful person, I certainly don't judge a person because of where they are from and the history of where they are from or the religion etc. Like when someone says 'I hate the French' or such like - what a ridiculous thing to say! Have you met every French person?

However I realise if you post a comment online you open yourself up to everyone. I chose to post the post and I shouldn't get offended. I will probs regret writing this haha but anyway as I say in regards to my actual post at the start I thank you all for your time and energies. Be well and live and let live, over and out!

Well said OP.

My daughter has a Welsh name
and I am forever told that it is wrong. It's pronounced differently in north wales to south wales.

Okay, I'm going to say it.
Was there a lot of venom towards OP and other English people (simply for being English, ie for historical reasons or religion) on this thread?

I'm very sorry you're upset by the comments OP.
I see some annoyance at people making assumptions and so on, and some arguments, but I don't see the type of venom you mention which is worrying me actually.
(Edit: To be clear, worrying if I'm blind to it because of underlying bias?)

You can pronounce it how you want, bob even. I’ve always had to explain how people prounounce my name, it’s no issue. Even had a friend who had to explained how to pronounce Helen.

I think the other poster had an unfairly hard time over the -sher Vs -sha thing.

I assumed op meant from the couple irl who told her she was pronouncing it wrong. Tbh, almost every irish person on this thread has agreed with op's pronunciation AFAIK

The rudest posts I saw on here were from someone who said she didn't like the name full stop, but her reasons for that weren't anti english...

No, she was talking about opening herself up to it by posting, so I don't think that's it.

I agree, that's what I was referring to too, but was it venom for historical reasons? Not sure it reached that level?

Ah I didn't really see much of that, but did enjoy the chat about rhotic and non rhotic accents!

Anyway, Saoirse is a lovely name and I like the op's pronunciation best. Also love the meaning

Your pronunciation is the only one I knew of until this thread.

Plenty of other names have similar issues eg Helen-a vs Hel-AY-na, many names ending in "line" (lin vs line), Maya (May-a vs My-a). Not much you can do about it but super rude of the older couple to try and and correct you!

I'd pronounce it sare sha but it's a regional thing.

Like any name, once you get to know it you pronounce it correctly. As a teacher there have been many I've written down phonetically so I get it right, takwa a few times with everyone, especially on first sight.

Do you have evidence of that from recordings of native speakers? IIRC both e and a at the end of a word are pronounced the same, as an indeterminate vowel.

I used to teach a girl called that who was from an Irish family, I’m sure her pronunciation was Sor-a-cuh. It’s a lovely name!

Here's saoirse in teanglann.ie @PuddingAunt, the word not the name, but they sound the same.
https://www.teanglann.ie/ga/fuaim/saoirse

I'm not Irish and I haven't come across the same before. If I saw it written down, I wouldn't have a clue on how to pronounce it or spell it if I heard the name in conversation. So she will have to explain spellings to plenty of people during her life. Though that's not a reason to not give her the name.

That's Sorcha, not Saoirse

In Scottish Gaelic it would be pronounced Sore shah - I went to school with a few !

I'd say that's an anglicised pronunciation like we get in Ireland too.
https://forvo.com/word/sorcha/

In Irish at least ( and I suspect Scottish Gaelic but open to correction) there is no way the cha letter combination gives a sha/shah sound. That sound is spelt sea in Irish.

The sound ch gives is not found in English but is sometimes approximated as a k sound. It's the sound in the word loch.

It would be like someone taking the word Mike in English and saying Meesh instead. It's not something that's evolved in Irish (or Scottish I'd say). It's an anglicisation because that interpretation of the spelling makes sense in English.