SEN Transport question (posted here for traffic)

[WeywardCrow]

Hi all,

DS is 13 and has diagnoses of ASD, SPD, anxiety and depression. He has an EHCP which names a school we are reasonably happy with.

The issue is that the Transport being provided to and from school is completely unsuitable and I wondered if anyone had any words of advice? We live in South Norfolk and DS is picked up at 7.40am. He goes via the east of Norwich to pick up child A and then via a town in the Broads to pick up child B. Yesterday was the first day of his new route. He was in the car for about 4 hours in total and by the time he got home was very distressed, felt car sick and was just exhausted. It was incredibly difficult to get him into the cab this morning. Again picked up at 7.40 and arrived 20 minutes late to school at 9.20.

The Transport team have said he just needs to be picked up even earlier which we just can’t agree to. DS is beside himself and exhausted and we know from last year when he was picked up just before 8 that he was just about able to manage that.

What on earth do we do? I know the 75 minute maximum travel time is just a guideline but does anyone know what legislation/case law this is based on? Anyone got any idea how best to address this? I suspect we just won’t be able to get him to school again until the route is made shorter again. Which means the LA funding additional transport but that really is not something I can do anything about.

(And just as a mini rant, dear god, but I have two autistic kids who attend different specialist schools and how the fuck I keep other aspects of my life going as well as making sure they get some sort of an education is a chuffing mystery to me)

Thanks for any words of advice/support.

Sorry, I should have his school is right on the North Norfolk coast and the roads aren’t great on his route.

I’m sorry to hear this, we had similar timings for our child (one year it was a 7.20am pick up) and it’s not easy for them to cope with being in the bus/car for so long.
There are usually very few options available to parents due to tiny transport budgets other than to take them to school yourself. Would that be an option for you?

Hi @Deadhouseplant thanks for replying.

We both work full time and have non-flexible jobs (DH is a teacher and I’m always customer facing so need to be on premises and available to speak to all the time) so we can’t transport him ourselves. We are wondering whether we should be taking up the LA offer for us to organise the transport and they contribute (I have no clue how much extra we’d need to chip in - we spend about £1,100 pcm on private therapies and medications for both DC so finding more funds money per month is going to be tricky). DS just back distressed again from the long trip. Heartbreaking stuff really. Plus I have no wine in the house!

Complain .. I know some people who have got their own taxi because of this situation

I know people who have had this sort of arrangement overturned too, keep complaining. It's been a while but I believe there is wording in the SEND COP that says transport has to be suitable.

I think you need to go back to the Transport team and be clear that the arrangements are not sustainable and having a significant impact on his well being.

A 4 hour daily commute would be a slog for a NT adult. It's a very long day for him unproductive if he arrives stressed, car sick a tired because the prospect of the travel is increasing his anxiety.

There is no point changing schools if the benefit of doing so is eroded by the means of getting him there.

What would be the travel time if he went direct by taxi?

OP, here is the statutory government guidance. See if there is something in there you can quote at your council. They may be breaking the rules.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/home-to-school-travel-and-transport-guidance

@prh47bridge

Is this one you can help with?

Journey times in rural Norfolk can be a right PITA, but this sounds excessive. I know that the start of a new regime is extra exhausting, but the length of the round route makes for a very long day even once you're more used to it

Guidance says a max time of 45 mins each way for primary age and 75 mins for secondary age so 4 hours a day is far far too long.

Even ifs it under the max recommended time law states the child must arrive in a fit state to learn (or something along those lines).

Go and see your local councillor, it will get dealt with as a priority.

Yes, it shouldn't be that long travelling.

At one point (aged 8) my son went by taxi to the nearest town (30 mins) then on a minibus with pupils up to 19 for another hour.

He quite liked the bus as his friend was on there and they linked DSs.

Request the LA amends the transport. The maximum recommended travel time for secondary is 1hr15. Now some DC do travel further, but where there is a solution such as splitting the route, the LA should do that. They won’t unless forced though. It can sometimes help if the school supports your case e.g. if DS is arriving tired and overwhelmed. If the LA refuses, complain.

Thanks all. I could cry that there are other people who know about being in this situation- being a parent to ASD children is surprisingly isolating.

The Transport team have said that they spoke to the school who reported DS was fine. I spoke to the school who’d apparently reported on his well-being having spoken to a TA who has had very limited contact with DS and who reported DS was “winding himself up” about getting the transport this afternoon but was otherwise “fine”. I said I assumed they meant anxious by “winding himself up”? They said yes, I explained that was not phrasing I would accept - anxiety is not something you purposefully do to yourself. I also said that DS was masking well (as he tends to at school) and then disintegrated when he got home. If they’d have spoken to me first I could have clarified. Now Transport are sure all is well.

We will complain again tomorrow. I have said that they can send a cab earlier but that DS will not be getting in it until 7.40 at the earliest. I’d just found page 31 of the Guidelines and also a case IPSEA quote which I’ll use (R v Hereford and Worcester CC). I suspect the answer in getting them to change their mind will be a mix of it’s too long a trip, it’s unsuitable as it’s leaving him in a state which means he can’t benefit from his education and that the Judge in the case I quoted said transport must be non-stressful.

We’ll probably have to at least threaten to get our MP involved (again) too. DS was out of school for 2 years before this placement started - at 11 years old we were dealing with his suicidal ideation rather than dealing with school transport so at least things have improved from there.

If DS went straight there it would be an hour door to door even in crappy traffic. It’s taken him 2 hours to get home this evening. I’ve fed him and he’s gone to decompress with his noise cancelling headphones on.

Def not acceptable.. push for a private taxi.. they often re do the route and have a shared taxi to ease the journey

Councils are going bankrupt over this.

Thanks to @meditrina for drawing my attention to this thread.

The 75 minutes is not based on legislation or case law. It is drawn from the statutory guidance on school transport.

Statutory guidance is as close to law as it is possible to get without being law. Any public body in receipt of statutory guidance must follow that and can only depart from it when there is good reason to do so, but even then, they must stick as closely to the guidance as possible.

A previous version of this statutory guidance said that a journey of over 75 minutes for a secondary school child was unreasonable. However, the current version of the guidance (linked by @dizzydizzydizzy up thread) weakens this to being a general guide and states that there will be circumstances where this is not possible (paragraph 98). However, the next two paragraphs appear to be relevant in your situation, and the example of Child T also appears very relevant. None of this says that they must change the arrangements to provide a shorter journey time, but I would take the view that it strongly hints in that direction.

If the LA continues to insist on the current approach, you need to appeal if you have not done so already. This is a two-stage process. It starts with a review by a senior officer. If that does not produce any change, you then have the right to appeal to an independent panel. If the panel rules against you, your final option is to refer the matter to the Local Government Ombudsman. Hopefully you won't need to go that far.

@Blueybanditbingochilli what is your point?

It's not our choice to have children with SN and being stuck in a mini bus for 4 hours is not acceptable

My point is that all these demands have literally caused councils to declare themselves bankrupt. It’s really disheartening seeing so many threads and posts where the OP is cheered on to ‘demand more’.

@Blueybanditbingochilli do you have a child with SN ?

@Blueybanditbingochilli What
would you suggest, in that case? It’s not the child or the OP’s fault that the transport provided isn’t suitable.

No but it’s not the councils fault either that they can’t provide more than they can afford. Presumably the OP is claiming DLA etc, can she not use that to reduce hours and take him herself?

I had to make a complaint about the transport provision and taxis not tuning up to collect from hospital school for my ASD child. Contact your local councillor and they will forward it to the correct person in the transport team.

Good luck - I know how much battling there is to get an ASD child into school.

I won’t be engaging with this poster. Unfortunately if you do not have SEN children and are prepared to present arguments like this I won’t have anything constructive to say. I would suggest you consider your words extremely carefully and consider what reasons, other than SEN budgets, there may be for the financial state of LAs.

For many, DLA does not cover anywhere near the extra costs associated with having a disability, so you cannot assume OP can afford to use that. And that is ignoring OP’s DS has a legal right to transport whatever the LA’s funding position.

LAs waste ££££ each year on representation to defend indefensible cases against unrepresented parents. The majority of which the LA know they are going to lose. They could easily use the money more wisely, ignoring towards transport, if they so wishes.