Welsh grandma, something I didn’t know before

[Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain]

I just found out something quite sad about my family yesterday. To do with my grandmother on my dad’s side whom I didn’t know very well but only because my parents divorced when I was 5 and DM didn’t want contact with any of them.

My grandmother was Welsh from Abergavenny in south Wales and I know nothing about her, only the fact that the place where she’s from is a market town. I keep meaning to look up her maiden name.

I got speaking to a lovely Welsh woman on the bus yesterday and she told me that when my grandmother married my grandfather (who was English) she’d have been shunned and cut off from her Welsh community because of this. I don’t know how true this is but it would explain how her side of the family was never mentioned if I asked my dad. I’ve always been proud of my quarter Welsh heritage even though I don’t know much about this. I know the English and Welsh have a chequered history too with atrocities committed from the English side to the Welsh side from what I recall of history.

It’s even more sad because at one time she must’ve loved my grandad to have married him and had a child with him but apparently he wasn’t the easiest of men to live with and they had awful arguments and he developed Parkinson’s Disease in later life. How sad that she felt cut off from her Welsh family, if this is the case, and even if she’d wanted to have divorced him, probably wouldn’t have been welcomed back in her home town.

Well, grandma Peggy, I’m going to look into your maiden name and history soon just for you. And my other great grandma on the other side (that’s another story!).

I don’t even know as only a few photos if I look like my Welsh grandma and my half siblings I don’t speak to so can’t ask there.

did the Welsh woman on the bus know your grandparents? It’s rather broad to say that marrying an English man would have ostracised her from her family!

If they want to speak Welsh why shouldn't they.

I grew up bilingual. Welsh spoken at home & school. Would always speak English if non Welsh speakers around.

With all due respect, it really did happen - I was there. You weren't.🙂

Besides, who says Welsh was their first language? They were most likely bilingual. This was pushing 40 years ago anyway, and I very much doubt it would happen now.

Without a tape you can't prove it. I don't doubt that's what you think happened, but I assert that it's not what happened.
Beddgelert was much more Welsh speaking 40 years ago and they were even more likely than now to have been two native speakers.

Even if not taking to them?

"who says Welsh was their first language? They were most likely bilingual."

This shows that you don't understand how it works.
I'm a first language Welsh speaker, but I'm also bilingual. It's not one or the other.

Well, I wouldn't do that, but I do understand that some people have internalised anti-Welsh attitudes that claim it's rude to speak Welsh in front of English speakers.

@Gwenhwyfar

Sorry what didn't happen? It was Crickhowell specifically, 1930. It was frowned upon and it seems she didn't return

I know what my gran told me of her time growing up in Wales. No idea about the speaking welsh around English people though.

My maternal grandad was from Abergavenny , it was a village called LLantillio Pertholey, however his grandfather (my great great grandfather) was from Clun in Shropshire , no idea how he got to Abergavenny and married my GGGrandmother. My Grandmother was from Monmouth , non of my DMs side of the family were Welsh speakers at all.

When i tried to trace my GGGrandfather in Clun it was full of John Evans's .

If you look at the thread, it's clear who I was replying to. Please look again and let me know if I have to go back and copy and paste all the original posts or not.

@Gwenhwyfar
was your post to me

*HelloMiss
Op I believe this to be true

My gran was also from Abergavenny and married an English man. Was tok uncomfortable to go back to visit, we never ever saw our Welsh family

Never gave it that much thought before but traded a lot of relatives via ancestry

Do you know anything about Monmouthshire? Seriously, of all the places this could happen, Abergavenny is not it*

I’m from Abergavenny and really don’t think this is true, my grandmother (Welsh) and from the valleys but who lived in Abergavenny did exactly the same thing. My grandad was from England and my grandmother definitely wasn’t shunned by her side of the family, they also lived near to her in Abergavenny.

It also isn’t true that mostly Welsh is spoken in Cardiff, some people do obviously speak Welsh but you tend to hear English being spoken more widely.

I don't believe this shunning stuff.

I am Welsh. My parents were Welsh. My grandparents on both sides were Welsh/English marriages and lived in Wales (marriages would have been between 1915 and 1920ish). No shunning involved.

It definitely didn’t, because if they were both Welsh speakers they would have been speaking Welsh all along nits not a trick, it’s their first language. And how woukd they know he couldn’t speak Welsh anyway, do you suppose?

My grandmother was from south wales and married an Englishman. He got on with her family well enough. My grandparents were married in 1946

Yes, I did ask you whether you know anything about Monmouthshire.

Exactly. This is where the myth falls down.

Welsh people speaking Welsh in Wales! How dare they!

Well, they were obviously bilingual if you heard them speak both languages…why assume English is more important. If they lived in Beddgelert I’m pretty sure their first language would be Welsh. In any case, how did they know you didn’t speak Welsh in order to snub you? What gave you away?

What was interesting to me, as a non welsh speaking welsh woman who’s lived away a long time, was how hard I found it hard to tell which language they were speaking. The intonation seems the same for both, and I only caught the odd word. Of course the words I could catch were the familiar English ones.

I was really surprised how hard it was to distinguish between English spoken with a strong welsh accent, and Welsh with English words sprinkled in.

@Gwenhwyfar
Yes I have been to most parts of Wales. In the 90's mainly

Very different to what my gran experienced in 1930 I would imagine!

The woman on the bus was talking about one experience in one family. I’m sure she wasn’t lying but I doubt it was normal behaviour either.

Your mother was chatting shit about the “switching from English in the pub” thing. Ignore that.

Good luck with the research into your family. Maybe upload your DNA to MyHeritage or the like? You may match with people old enough to remember the marriage.

I think it's likely she was lying because she also talked bullshit about signs in Wales being Welsh only and people mainly speaking Welsh in shops in Cardiff.

I lived in Cardiff for a number of years attending university and would say it’s predominantly English speaking though obviously Welsh speakers exist. Cant say I ever entered a shop or pub in the city centre where I was spoken to in Welsh by staff before English.

The road signs have been in Welsh and English for as long as I can remember.

And the old ‘Welsh people start speaking Welsh just to exclude English people’ is just nonsense really isn’t it. Especially given the estimates that roughly 20-30% of the Welsh population speak Welsh. It’s trotted out all the time to make out that Welsh people despise the English which outside of sport isn’t really a thing is it. I have English in my family dating back to before my great grandparents and none of them were chased out of Wales as far as I know. Lucky for me as I betrayed all Welsh people and I’m lucky to be allowed to live here married an Englishman.

My grandparents were from Merthyr, neither were allowed to speak Welsh at school/home.
my Grandmother’s family didn’t like my grandfathers simply as they weren’t as well off!