CF allotment thief part 2: the Battle of Barbara and the Beansprouts

[YaMuvva]

Hi all, sorry I didn’t get a chance to post the link to this in the last thread, but it filled up too quickly.

So, another update

DH and I sat and had a looooong talk last night. We poured over every option, the pro’s and cons and the best and worst case scenarios. We thought of every possible situation that could arise from each option and we made a decision this morning.

it was actually the best/worst case scenario talk that clinched it.
Best case scenario for selling it to her was we get a little bit of money. Worst case is we have no allotment and the house possibly devalues.

Best case scenario for if we shared the land is that she is a pleasant plot neighbour and isn’t bitter that we are on the land that used to be ‘hers’ and doesn’t try to boss us about. But worst case scenario is that she remains bitter and makes our lives hell, interferes and our allotment space becomes an unbearable place to be.

Best case scenario for if we keep it to ourselves is we have the enjoyment of a long awaited allotment, one that makes a massive difference to DH’s MH and our general life enjoyment. Worst case scenario is that we make a neighbour - who is smart enough to find another plot or use her own generous garden - cross.

We figured that the worst case scenarios for all 3 weren’t worth risking the absolute best case scenario could bring.

So we are kicking her off.

We discussed letting her wait some months before making her leave or until the end of the growing season around about the end of September. But that when you consider the weather, that would mean we wouldn’t truly be able to enjoy the allotment in good weather for a whole year. I know it can still be enjoyed in horrible weather but the thought of missing out on a whole entire summer of gardening, relaxing and recuperating just feels too long. She has also indicated she will fight us - well she can try and she won’t win so I’d rather the ‘fight’ was a short one not a long one

We went to the plot this morning (no Babs in sight!) and took a soil test, took pictures, used that app to mark the plots (thanks to PP for the tips), and measured it and took pictures of the measurements/readings. From what we can tell she has root veg, fruit and a little herb garden patch, all growing fairly well considering the time of year. We didn’t disturb anything

Going to call the home insurers today to see if we can get legal cover and reclaim costs from the previous owner so solicitors can write her a letter - if not we will just instruct our current solicitors and make the reclaim too. I know we could do a letter ourselves but I really think a legal middle man would be worth the money. We will take solicitors advice on how much notice to give her - but it won’t be long notice. No point, may as well rip the plaster off now. We won’t be offering to buy the shed as I don’t want to be beholden to Barbara or have her make out to others that we stole the shed. We want a clean slate, to pick our own items.

I do feel bad that Barbara will be losing something that is so dear to her and that her ‘sanctuary’ will be taken away but the bottom line is it does not belong to her and she has known this for 10 years. She could have spent that 10 years, or even just the nine months since the house went on the market, to find another sanctuary. We are being selfish, we have been through unimaginable struggles and it’s time to just live for ourselves not a random neighbour. If that makes us a pariah in the community I can take it.

DH also messaged our police officer friend of ours this morning who said if the time comes to bin her stuff and dismantle the shed to call 101 and tell them “We are doing this, it’s our property and we will handle everything with care and bring it to her home” and then if she calls them saying we are stealing or damaging our property then we are one step ahead at least.

For adverse possession to apply Babs would have had to have been using the land without permission, secrecy or force for 12 years prior to 13 October 2003. After that the law changed. Now only 10 years applies BUT the trespasser can only acquire the land by lodging a notice with the LR which has to notify the legal owner. If the legal owner lodges an objection within 65 days the title cannot pass. So I think OP should be OK.

I think OP is doing the right thing, what a chancer Barbara is! All those feeling sorry for her and that she deserves to keep it, I bet if Babs had posted her side you'd all be calling her entitled and a CF!

well you did offer

it's not any different for everyone else on the waiting list to if OP let Barbara keep using their allotment and they waited for a council allotment.
Giving Barbara the benefit of the doubt I would say it would be a nice gesture to make her less cross about being turfed off (it's the vendor that caused this mess, even if B is being a nob about it).
I could live with the guilt about the other people on the allotment waiting list if it meant not having a neighbour that hated me.

oh she's gonna hate them anyway

I think you are right to reclaim but no need to ‘bin’ anything. That would be wasteful and unnecessary.

like a colonial looking for a chill zone

😂

I am so invested in this thread.

I like your approach OP. Good luck!

I posted upthread about this too. My in laws were allowed to cultivate the top part of their neighbours’ garden for over twenty years, as the neighbour had a huge plot of land and in laws’ garden was only small. When neighbour moved, in laws came home one day to find the part they’d cultivated fenced off and the contents left in their garden. They tried to claim adverse possession but couldn’t because the law regards the property as still in the possession of the original owner if there is an agreement (verbal or otherwise) for a second party to use it.

I don’t think a post dated agreement of ownership would be admissible because there would have been an obligation to declare any such agreement during the sale proceedings as part of the property information disclosure. If they just rock up with an agreement out of the blue I would think that would give the buyer grounds to sue the seller for misinformation and possibly the solicitor for failing to enquire about any existing arrangements on land included in the sale.

So, happy to ignore the OP's husband's mental health then, or doesn't he count?

probably, but any complaints to the other neighbours will hold less water if OP has done her a favour to give her a legup to get another allotment.

So I take it you've read and taken on board all the suffering her DH has been through then??

I can see why you'd think that, but they didn't buy the house knowing about the allotment - OP said in her first thread that it was a pleasant surprise when she saw the deeds.

Stop misreading.
I have said storming in and alienating without any kindness or understanding will create dislike amongst neighbours.
That's a fact.

Oh, grow up

Why dont you donate some money to Barbara then? put your money where your mouth is so she can buy an allotment of her own. It would show you are being really kind. How about starting off with 5k?

If you really mean this post then it would prove you're being genuine.

#BE KIND

Did your in laws accept or anticipate that this would happen?

Sorry, but just imagine that this was a vegetable patch in your own back garden @MrMucker, because that's effectively what this amounts to. Would you seriously let someone else use a part of your garden that you legally own, just because you didn't want to cause some "heartache" and you're worried about what the neighbours would think? I bet not.

It rather depends on what they think of Barbara themselves.
It’s as likely they’re going to go, ‘Thank goodness someone’s finally stood up to her!’ Op is unlikely to be the first person she has been aggressive and entitled with.

Barbara is gonna hate whatever (and whomever had moved in) isn't she 😕

I think this sounds like a good plan, OP. I have been on the waiting list for an allotment for over 10 years so there is no way I would be giving it up either! If the ex-owner had really wanted to help her friend, why didn't she sell/gift it to Barbara before selling the house?

Yes, you will definitely win this one and smash her! I would also pull her plants up and let them die in front of her 😀. Can you get your friendly policeman to come and forcibly evict her? Just to put her in her place in case she wants to argue.

I wonder if the allotment squatter and the previous owner collaborated about keeping quiet until after the sale had finalized. Honestly I don't know what I'd do in this situation, but I think you're taking the correct, legal route, @YaMuvva . Its unfortunate about the row at the start of it all, but that was going to happen at some point anyway on this one. Good luck. Please update us on your progress.

At what point during the sale did you get to see the deeds? This is usually post-completion.

At what point during the sale process did you become aware of the existence of the plot of land and garage?

You don't explicitly state when, but that you became aware of the plot's existence upon sight of the deeds. Did you make your offer on the house based on the sale of just the house?

It could be that the vendor thought if she didn't include the land as part of the sale particulars, then the sale price would reflect the house value only, and didn't actually deliberately mislead anyone. Maybe she thought she had a private arrangement witt Barbara, which meant the land would be excluded from the sale. She and Barbara may well have an unwritten contract whereby the vendor has gifted Barbara the land in exchange for 4lbs of carrots annually.

I think it's possible the resolution of this situation may not be straightforward, especially if vendor and Babs are still good friends.

Absolutely fine for you to act as you are regarding the plot of land. Could you give a the lady more notice? Yes. Would it be the kinder thing to do? Yes. But that's completely up to you. Hope it all works out well and you can enjoy your veggie patch soon.