CF allotment thief part 2: the Battle of Barbara and the Beansprouts

[YaMuvva]

Hi all, sorry I didn’t get a chance to post the link to this in the last thread, but it filled up too quickly.

So, another update

DH and I sat and had a looooong talk last night. We poured over every option, the pro’s and cons and the best and worst case scenarios. We thought of every possible situation that could arise from each option and we made a decision this morning.

it was actually the best/worst case scenario talk that clinched it.
Best case scenario for selling it to her was we get a little bit of money. Worst case is we have no allotment and the house possibly devalues.

Best case scenario for if we shared the land is that she is a pleasant plot neighbour and isn’t bitter that we are on the land that used to be ‘hers’ and doesn’t try to boss us about. But worst case scenario is that she remains bitter and makes our lives hell, interferes and our allotment space becomes an unbearable place to be.

Best case scenario for if we keep it to ourselves is we have the enjoyment of a long awaited allotment, one that makes a massive difference to DH’s MH and our general life enjoyment. Worst case scenario is that we make a neighbour - who is smart enough to find another plot or use her own generous garden - cross.

We figured that the worst case scenarios for all 3 weren’t worth risking the absolute best case scenario could bring.

So we are kicking her off.

We discussed letting her wait some months before making her leave or until the end of the growing season around about the end of September. But that when you consider the weather, that would mean we wouldn’t truly be able to enjoy the allotment in good weather for a whole year. I know it can still be enjoyed in horrible weather but the thought of missing out on a whole entire summer of gardening, relaxing and recuperating just feels too long. She has also indicated she will fight us - well she can try and she won’t win so I’d rather the ‘fight’ was a short one not a long one

We went to the plot this morning (no Babs in sight!) and took a soil test, took pictures, used that app to mark the plots (thanks to PP for the tips), and measured it and took pictures of the measurements/readings. From what we can tell she has root veg, fruit and a little herb garden patch, all growing fairly well considering the time of year. We didn’t disturb anything

Going to call the home insurers today to see if we can get legal cover and reclaim costs from the previous owner so solicitors can write her a letter - if not we will just instruct our current solicitors and make the reclaim too. I know we could do a letter ourselves but I really think a legal middle man would be worth the money. We will take solicitors advice on how much notice to give her - but it won’t be long notice. No point, may as well rip the plaster off now. We won’t be offering to buy the shed as I don’t want to be beholden to Barbara or have her make out to others that we stole the shed. We want a clean slate, to pick our own items.

I do feel bad that Barbara will be losing something that is so dear to her and that her ‘sanctuary’ will be taken away but the bottom line is it does not belong to her and she has known this for 10 years. She could have spent that 10 years, or even just the nine months since the house went on the market, to find another sanctuary. We are being selfish, we have been through unimaginable struggles and it’s time to just live for ourselves not a random neighbour. If that makes us a pariah in the community I can take it.

DH also messaged our police officer friend of ours this morning who said if the time comes to bin her stuff and dismantle the shed to call 101 and tell them “We are doing this, it’s our property and we will handle everything with care and bring it to her home” and then if she calls them saying we are stealing or damaging our property then we are one step ahead at least.

So you'd allow someone to lay claim to land that you owned, would you? Do you let people just walk into your garden - or house - and establish their own claim, even though they don't own it? Of course you would, as long as you're telling other people to do it. You'd probably be the very last person to do it yourself.

It's not an allotment, either - and why is it the responsibility of the OP and her husband to allow poor old Babs to lay claim to the land because she has supposedly been having an awful time? Many people go through awful times, but they don't squat on other people's land. The "allotment community" and neighbours will have to suck it up, won't they.

JFC! It’s not an allotment! It’s a plot of garden separate from the house. It’s being colloquially called an allotment because it’s been used for growing veg. I had something similar at a previous house - a garden, then a separate piece of land that was originally used for veg and fruit bushes. It was and was always part of my garden/land.

The OP’s plot of land is NOT a council allotment! It’s not rented, it’s a separate piece of land that is part of the property deeds.

@Newpancake92
Can still cause problems whether registered or not. The owner has more rights to the title, their solicitor should sort it out for OP

Practice guide 4: adverse possession of registered land

I'm predicting at least a 4-threader for this one!

A claim for adverse possession is only possible where the land has been used by someone for 12 years or more, but crucially, without the owners’ permission. Babs had permission and the law would treat that as the previous owners’ proof of ownership of the land. So OP is now the new owner as she bought the land with the house. Any attempt to backpedal on the previous owners’ part would probably be met with legal action against her for failing to disclose during the sale.

Hilarious.

You're assuming OP's husband is an idiot when it comes to gardening. Nice.

Babs went ahead and planted a new spring crop knowing the house and land had been sold several months ago. She's an entitled cheeky fucker who feels entitled to someone else's property.

Can you imagine if the plot had been adjacent to the house/in the actual garden? Completely unreasonable for her to expect to be allowed to continue when the OPs want their garden/plot that they purchased with the house.

I'm sorry but that is not the case at all. Squatting in residential property is illegal unless the owner had previously allowed you to live there eg you were a tenant.

I'd ring fencing contractors and put up a nice 7 foot fence round your land with a gate and a large padlock.

And again, only if the claimant did not have the owners knowledge and permission to be there. Barbara AND the seller have already stated that the occupation was with the owners permission therefore adverse possession does not apply.

posters need to read the thread, it’s your private land not an allotment
you’re in no way obliged to retain Barbara previous arrangements. she had an informal non-transferable informal arrangement with previous owner

It is not adverse possession as the previous owner and babs had an informal arrangement with consent and knowledge. There was No formal land exchange and no land registry change initiated . The previous owner is sneaky & avoidant that she didn’t disclose her informal arrangement

my advice

• lawyer up. Play serious. You need some strong worded correspondence
• No sentimentality get Barbara the fuck off your land

OP - I feel bad because I’ve given Barbara a lift to work for six months and now I want to stop. Is a month’s notice ok?

MN - she’s had free lifts for six months, OP, cut her off immediately!

——

OP - I bought a house and Barbara has been using the land for free for ten years. She pretended she didn’t know about the house sale and told me to bog off when I politely said I’m now the registered owner of the land.

MN - you should give it to her with some vouchers for the local garden centre and a box of chocolates as an apology for asking! Also, adverse possession! My ex SIL’s MIL’s ex husband nearly finished his law degree in 1972! Also, her mental health! She is probably ND!

So entitled. If someone kindly let me use something, I wouldn't expect the new owner to do the same - in fact, I'd assume my nice arrangement was coming to an end!

What if she did? It's their land.

I think you're right.
The "scaffolding" one went to four threads as I remember. As did the "dealing with a horrible builder" one.
I was thinking definitely three, possiblity four. If she's ambitious, five (fingers crossed)..

Not quite the same thing.
This is the equivalent of Stacey giving you the car and never driving it ever again. So you have full use of it and have to arrange and pay for mot etc.
Unfortunately Stacey didn’t register the log book with the dvla so when she unfortunately passes away it legally belongs to her next of kin.

You can have adverse possession on registered land as well as unregistered.

Sorry, I've only seen the OP's posts in the original thread but I'm imagining the convo went something like this:

Babs - Ohai Stella (the Seller), I've heard you're selling your house - the allotment's definitely mine, right? I need some time away from my massive fuck-off garden.

Stella the Seller - Of course it's yours, I told you that 9 and a half years ago. In any case, I haven't mentioned it in the particulars so nobody will ever, ever know.

Babs - Aces.

Maybe if Stacey put a sign up outside her house saying she planned to die in the next few months, and if allotments parcels of land needed an MOT. 😆

Our new house does have a very big garden, it was what really sold it to us. The plan was to create a veg patch and greenhouse at the bottom as right now it’s all grass right to the edges. However when we found out we had an allotment we decided to knock that idea on the head and put in goalposts for the kids (something we couldn’t do with a greenhouse as a ball target!)

Can I ask what ‘morally owning’ something means?

OP posted that her solicitor TOLD her that adverse possession does not apply here as she had permission from the previous owner. So no, it does not apply.

Was this with an area of land? Did they use adverse possession?

For the millionth time THESE ARE NOT ALLOTMENTS

These are plots of land that belong with each house. The plots are all together and look like allotments but they are not.

This plot belongs to the OP just like the gardens at the front and back of her house do. Just a distance from it.

All the other houses have their own plots where OP's is. They are not allotment owners.

"Barbara" was well aware that her "close friend" was selling her house. Barbara lives locally so would be well aware that the plot belongs to the house owner.

Barbara knew the house was then sold. She knew her time was up - unless she's a cheeky fucker who's chancing her arm.
She planted stuff KNOWING she did not have the owners permission to work the plot.

She's 60, not 80. (I'm 66). She knows full well that she has no right to work that plot. That's why she was so aggressive to the OP. She's trying to bully to get her own way.

You can't defend the indefensible.

Mn middle class handwringing triggered by imagining an artisanal gardener in a toast smock and orthopaedic shoes pottering about in an allotment humming along to the archers

-MN Refusal to acknowledge its not an allotment. It’s privately owned land
-barbara is an artisanal gardener and you’re the big bad greedy property owner. You must reimburse Big Babs or give her your land or sell it for two bob

I know it doesn't apply in this case, I was just replying to a pp where they incorrectly stated you can't have it for registered land.

Legally it is OPs land and any beneficial interest ended with the transfer of whole title. Legal action is the way forward.