CF allotment thief part 2: the Battle of Barbara and the Beansprouts

[YaMuvva]

Hi all, sorry I didn’t get a chance to post the link to this in the last thread, but it filled up too quickly.

So, another update

DH and I sat and had a looooong talk last night. We poured over every option, the pro’s and cons and the best and worst case scenarios. We thought of every possible situation that could arise from each option and we made a decision this morning.

it was actually the best/worst case scenario talk that clinched it.
Best case scenario for selling it to her was we get a little bit of money. Worst case is we have no allotment and the house possibly devalues.

Best case scenario for if we shared the land is that she is a pleasant plot neighbour and isn’t bitter that we are on the land that used to be ‘hers’ and doesn’t try to boss us about. But worst case scenario is that she remains bitter and makes our lives hell, interferes and our allotment space becomes an unbearable place to be.

Best case scenario for if we keep it to ourselves is we have the enjoyment of a long awaited allotment, one that makes a massive difference to DH’s MH and our general life enjoyment. Worst case scenario is that we make a neighbour - who is smart enough to find another plot or use her own generous garden - cross.

We figured that the worst case scenarios for all 3 weren’t worth risking the absolute best case scenario could bring.

So we are kicking her off.

We discussed letting her wait some months before making her leave or until the end of the growing season around about the end of September. But that when you consider the weather, that would mean we wouldn’t truly be able to enjoy the allotment in good weather for a whole year. I know it can still be enjoyed in horrible weather but the thought of missing out on a whole entire summer of gardening, relaxing and recuperating just feels too long. She has also indicated she will fight us - well she can try and she won’t win so I’d rather the ‘fight’ was a short one not a long one

We went to the plot this morning (no Babs in sight!) and took a soil test, took pictures, used that app to mark the plots (thanks to PP for the tips), and measured it and took pictures of the measurements/readings. From what we can tell she has root veg, fruit and a little herb garden patch, all growing fairly well considering the time of year. We didn’t disturb anything

Going to call the home insurers today to see if we can get legal cover and reclaim costs from the previous owner so solicitors can write her a letter - if not we will just instruct our current solicitors and make the reclaim too. I know we could do a letter ourselves but I really think a legal middle man would be worth the money. We will take solicitors advice on how much notice to give her - but it won’t be long notice. No point, may as well rip the plaster off now. We won’t be offering to buy the shed as I don’t want to be beholden to Barbara or have her make out to others that we stole the shed. We want a clean slate, to pick our own items.

I do feel bad that Barbara will be losing something that is so dear to her and that her ‘sanctuary’ will be taken away but the bottom line is it does not belong to her and she has known this for 10 years. She could have spent that 10 years, or even just the nine months since the house went on the market, to find another sanctuary. We are being selfish, we have been through unimaginable struggles and it’s time to just live for ourselves not a random neighbour. If that makes us a pariah in the community I can take it.

DH also messaged our police officer friend of ours this morning who said if the time comes to bin her stuff and dismantle the shed to call 101 and tell them “We are doing this, it’s our property and we will handle everything with care and bring it to her home” and then if she calls them saying we are stealing or damaging our property then we are one step ahead at least.

she has known for 9 months that the house was for sale.
She had 9 months to talk to the seller about the plot
She had 9 months ot move her plants and shed.

SHE KNEW THE HOUSE WAS SOLD 3 MONTHS AGO

so why did she plant new things for the season instead of moving her plants?????

Oh and someone upthread said that their allotment society gives 2 weeks notice, so no, a whoel growing season is NOT what allotment societies do, and yet again, this is not an allotment.

I agree with posters suggesting to go knock on Barbara’s door to smooth things over.
Best case scenario: you avoid the legal fight and associated costs, she agrees she has no right to the plot, and leaves you alone.
Worst case scenario: she refuses to budge and you are forced to take the legal route, but you can rest assured you at least tried to be neighbourly.

this. Cfers do like to spread it around

Poor Babs, sounds like she's lost "the plot"!

Ah well, you reap what you sow (or not, hey Babs 😆).

Coffee Barbara?

@akkakk she may have known the house was on the market it doesn't mean she knew the land was too.
Who knows what story the old owner has spun.

Doesn't mean you can't be reasonable going forwards. As I said above a bit of kindness goes a heck of a long way in a small community. It the OP wants to alienate all of their new community then sure go ahead and boot her off. Or you play the long game get people on side by being kind and live in harmony with people.
Living in a small community and difficult relationships with the locals is really really tough and can be bloody isolating.

Babs will be liable for costs.

She may have known the house was on the market it doesn't mean she knew the land was too. Who knows what story the old owner has spun.

That's between Babs and the old owner though, nothing to do with OP. It doesn't change the fact she's currently trespassing on someone else's land.

Barbara said she knew the land belonged to house that OP bought, it says so in the 1st post on the original thread

@steppemum most likely the old owner didn't tell her the plot was for sale with the house or told her it wasn't!
When it wasn't claimed 3 months ago she assumed she was told the truth and got on with it.

As I said above a bit of kindness goes a heck of a long way in a small community. It the OP wants to alienate all of their new community then sure go ahead and boot her off. Or you play the long game get people on side by being kind and live in harmony with people.
Living in a small community and difficult relationships with the locals is really really tough and can be bloody isolating

For all you know this small community might be delighted that someone's standing up to Barbara at last.

Barbara obviously knew the house was for sale, I suppose it could be remotely possible that she thought the allotment wasn't part of the house sale, especially as you left it for weeks before checking it out? To be fair it does take a lot of time and effort to bring an allotment up to scratch, especially if it has been previously neglected, so no doubt she was slowly coming to that conclusion, or hiding her head in the sand and hoping that she could continue because you hadn't realised the plot belonged with the house. Maybe, after having had time to sleep on it - and talk it over with her family - she'll act more reasonably.

again, she had 9 months.

The seller was her neighbour and friend.
So in those 9 months did it not occur to her once to say - the land is mine isn't it?

Of COURSE she knew. She was just hoping that is she bluffed enough then OP would let her use the land

They might. Or they might side with all the other neighbours the OP has had a run in with already.

Good luck OP! It is yours and this circus and its’ monkeys belong to the previous owner! Would you mind sharing the name of the app please?

From the origional thread:

"We asked the person if we’d got it wrong as we are new owners of number 8 on X Street and thought this was our new allotment.

Apparently she is our neighbour down the road (never yet met her) and yes whilst it is the allotment belonging to number 8, the previous owner (a “very dear friend” of hers apparently) let her use it, she’s been using it for 10 years."

Babs absoolutly knows the plot of land belongs to OPs new house

By the time the sale board went up neighbour had moved into care and the house was sold with vacant possession, so little to no opportunity for discussion beforehand. I think the plan was to have a word with the new neighbour but the fence went up before they had a chance. Their solicitor advised they had no claim for adverse possession because the prior agreement to use it meant that it was still the property of the old neighbour at the time of the sale, and so subsequently belonged to the new owner.

It’s not a land grab. It’s OUR lane.

We took a soil test and pictures/measurements to make sure that when the times comes to take over the plot everything is in order, nothing has been spoiled or creamed off. It’s the sensible approach IMO and I think the legal route is a sensible approach too because it takes the emotion out of it

which all the others are you referring to? I remember reading about the garage CF but no others

True. But neither of us know either way, do we? they might easily shrug their shoulders and not be bothered at all.

I think I would too. She may have reflected on what she said in the heat of the moment after all, OP said she and her DH didn't handle it brilliantly either as they were suprisised. Of course, she may be an out and out CFer and I'd 100% be getting that solicitors letter drawn up anyway.

But I think I'd go in calmly and matter of fact. Expressing that the seller lied to you about the vacant possession and sympathetic with Barbara that she may have been lied to as well (even if she wasn't it can't hurt to initially go in with sympathy.)

Then I'd be telling her that you and DH will be starting work on the plot immediately and she has until X date to vacate her things. If she gets shirty or adversarial at all I'd simply tell her you've already spoken to your solicitors and the police and she is squatting on land you own so if her things are not cleared by X date, you will be clearing them yourself and delivering them to her driveway.

Trying to shift blame to the OP is absurd.

Nothing changes the fact that Babs has known for the better part of a year that "dear friend" was selling up, has known since January that the sale was completed, and instead of a) clearing out and b) approaching OP with deference, she continued to use the plot. And declared that she will "fight" the people who are on the deeds as legal owners.

Absurd.

(Also, many people buy property from afar without ever viewing it at all let alone scrutinizing via multiple inspections. Which is entirely irrelevant to this situation.)

@OVienna when I talk about costs I don’t mean legal fees.
I mean the cost of conflict and living in close proximity with neighbours who don’t like you.
I would find that draining over time - a home is years of this.
In contrast one little conversation could save all the trouble for everyone, if it goes well, and have no further negative implications if it goes badly.

Yeah, good point. I'd probably go and buy them some slippers and sign the house over 🤣

@godmum56 the neighbours with the garage and the kids jumping over the fence to retrieve their ball!

Now you’ve made your decision, I’d send DH over to have the ‘nice’ chat about moving out gardener to gardener ie him saying he wants to get stuck in this season and see what she says while also pursuing the legal route for two weeks notice as the most. He can calmly say he’ll be over in any case as he wants to start seeing the lay of the land and get some stuff in asap.
If DH is now feeling better then a regular stroll over to plot will do him the world of good. A ball of string and some pegs to mark out his planned beds, a pen and paper to sketch out plans possibly with some of his gardening family will begin to lightly plant the reality in Barbara’s mind. The more you and he are there.
As you want to get growing this season then the next month is crucial. Seedlings on windowsills, or plug plants from a garden centre ready to go in as soon as Babs has gone.
Happy planning for a flourishing plot 🥕🥕🥕🥕🥕🥕🥕🥕🥕🥕🥕🥕