England is running out of teachers

[noblegiraffe]

Or, to be clear, people who are willing to teach in schools. It has plenty of ex teachers who have vowed never to set foot in a school again.

While everyone seems to understand that you can't expect to see a doctor or dentist anymore, the message about not being able to expect your child to have a teacher anymore doesn't seem to have filtered through in the same way.

The number of cover lessons that kids are having is going through the roof. Some people think that if a kid has an adult in front of them then they are learning something, where kids know if they have a 'supply' timetabled that afternoon they are in for a doss lesson. Some people think that if a kid has a teacher for their subject that the teacher actually knows the subject being taught, which is increasingly not the case. Some people think that if lessons are being planned for those teachers and the teacher just has to 'deliver' them then that will be good enough, which is often not the case.

Exam classes at least used to be protected and given the 'good teachers', which is increasingly no longer the case, with Y11s reporting that they have a variety of supply teachers, even in core subjects.

There was a thread recently where an A-level student hadn't had a teacher for a year, wondering why the school hadn't done anything about it. We cannot magic up teachers! A-level students at my school are increasingly in the position of not having a teacher and having to teach themselves, and schools are now encouraged to put 'no teacher' on UCAS applications as relevant information for universities.

Recent threads about suggesting teachers need to be paid more to boost recruitment, or given a day off a fortnight to boost recruitment have attracted replies about teachers thinking they are special, or lazy, paid well enough already and having enough time off already.

But the education system is in crisis and something needs to drastically change as it's only getting worse.

The DfE's solution is to hire from abroad, at a time when the rest of government is seeking to reduce immigration.
https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/dfe-mulls-boost-international-recruitment

@noblegiraffe I totally agree with you, I have been teaching for almost 30 years, I've always absolutely loved it, it was my dream career, but the last 12 months I feel exhausted, can't cope with the ever increasing workload. It doesn't matter how much I do the weekends I never feel like I'm on top of things and the rudeness from some parents it's just something else. The needs to be a social worker is just ridiculous – this threshold to get children to social care seems to get higher every year. I'm not sure how much more I can take and now looking for jobs outside of teaching which I never thought I would say.

Btw I did nothing to make him throw his keyboard.

Breakfast clubs across the UK are being set up because so many children are being sent to school on an empty stomach. If a child is hungry, it can't learn.

Apparently not all students with SEN.

Maybe people think it's okay because they're small. But if they start assaulting people when they're in primary, what the hell is going to happen when they're 15 and bigger than me?

Yep, my husband did 1.year teaching and left, I stayed. 25 years on he is earning nearly double my wage, works less hours and has better working conditions. At his office nobody physically or verbally abuses him, he isn't responsible for anybody's diet, health needs or mental health problems on top of the job he is paid for. He can choose when he takes his holiday and can always take time to go to the dentist, doctor if he needs to. In real terms of rest days, he has more holiday time than me.

Sorry pressed send too soon, the school I left 1.5 years ago still has no computing teacher. This incident was the last straw for me.

I was a secondary maths teacher, they can’t add fraction in year 9 and inevitably it has to be taught again before they sit GCSEs. Majority of kids don’t know their times table and basic methods for 4 operations. Check any year 7 book and we always start again at the beginning from scratch. I’ve often had kids tell me they learnt Pythagoras in primary and I’m like “that’s great, don’t forget to correct all those x10 qs you got wrong!” For years it was depth not breadth and mastery was a buzz word, where has that gone.

I left and I’ve not been sworn at or had a table flipped over in my presence, no one has questioned “why the f they should listen to me”, no one’s parents have phoned up asked me my qualifications and insisted that their child actually did no wrong and I’ve doubled my income - because I’ve got a maths degree and a fuck ton of transferable skills.

I loved teaching, it was all I ever wanted to do. I would happily go back to the classroom with the following - match my current income, 30% ppa, classes capped at 20 kids. Pay for overtime (revision classes, school holiday exam prep) and a TA that was actually an assistant to the teacher who could do some of the admin tasks that the union have negotiated we shouldn’t do, but no one else does if we don’t do it.

I’m not going to harp on about the ‘good old days’, I promise, but when I was at primary school (‘70s) all kids at what is now ks2 were taught how to use fractions arithmetically. We also learnt basic geometry and basic set theory. Are those still taught at that stage?

I was investigated because a parent complained that I'd bullied her 16 yr old. Every single pupil in the class was questioned.

They all told the same story: the 16 yr old kept interrupting by talking and I'd told her to be quiet. That was the 'bullying'.

The Depute assigned to the investigation told the parent that there was no case to answer. The parent refused to accept that, but didn't take it further.

Footnote

The parent had told the Depute her angel 'never lies'.

I suggested that the Depute might like to inform the parent that her angel had also told the entire class that the parent was 'a slut'.

Well, I would know, and that's part of the problem. The quality of teachers.

The top ones will look for positions at private schools, independent schools, high-attaining grade grammar schools.

Any secondary school that has below an Ofsted 'good' rating would raise my suspicions about teaching quality.

And any local secondary that has below 'satisfactory' or a 'poor' rating, would have it for a reason.....I would be thinking the teachers are new/incompetent/low standard, or that the teachers are older and just drifting along, waiting to retire.

Same as hotel reviews on TripAdvisor. Rating are low for a reason. 👍

As a primary teacher, assaults vary according to the needs of the children in the particular class.

Last year I was verbally abused. Continuously, daily. No SEN involved.

This year the danger is mainly flying objects, including chairs and tables. Occasional. SEN involved. I have also had a death threat. No SEN.

Both are routine enough for nobody to bother about it or its effect on me or other children.

There's a separate crisis going on which is child poverty. Increasing numbers of kids who aren't getting enough to eat at home.

The free school meal earnings threshold is the same as it was in 2017, despite the cost of everything having shot up since then, so there are thousands of kids in families on income levels who would have been fed at school in 2017 who don't qualify now.

Unfortunately that has an impact on schools, because hungry children can't learn.

I don't know if Labour have said anything about the free school meal threshold alongside breakfast clubs. They really should.

Sorry I’m really worked up remembering this incident! When I told her I didn’t know what happened moments leading up to this she went crazy. Like seriously there were 31 kids in the class how the hell can I tell you what EACH one was doing at every second of the lesson? I was literally helping a student then I turned around as there was a massive bang where he threw the keyboard against the wall and stormed out. There is way too much pressure and unrealistic expectations on teachers. She came into school for a meeting and shouted at me the entire meeting with HOD present. When she left we both looked at each other and finally understood where her son gets his behaviour from!

They continue to be violent. In Scotland, the police won't touch it if the assailant is under 16 unless blood has been spilled.

No.

My DGC go to different secondary schools
One does not follow its own discipline policy and often hands out detentions for the pettiest of reasons. Yet children who do something seriously wrong might get a day out of class

The other has a strict discipline and behaviour policy which is rigorously and fairly applied.

The former is haemorrhaging teachers. The second hasn't one vacancy

The former has no chance of decent GCSE results (where is OFSTED when you need them?)
The other is outstanding.

It's not always the parents...

I know a lot of people who read these threads already know what they think but for what it’s worth; here’s my experience.

For context I started teaching (secondary) in 2010 and was a head of department for 10 years until I left very recently. Also, I was not the primary earner in my household - my
husband earns more than me. So for me personally the main issue(s) is not pay. Although, I guess if it was better maybe I would have thought much harder about whether or not to leave.

The way I feel at the moment echoes what others have said, that no amount of money could coax them back into the classroom. And, quite honestly this makes me so sad! I started teaching so full of enthusiasm and I loved my job - it’s all I’ve ever wanted to do! I remember the first time my subject’s curriculum was totally rewritten for the new exams, I relished it. I loved being creative and imagining and designing lessons that would appeal to the students in my care and that my department would enjoy teaching. I spent 5 weeks of the holidays doing this and I enjoyed it (I didn’t finish it but I had a good starting point for that I could finish at weekends and other holidays etc). Fast forward to now and my subject is about to have another new exam introduced because the first set that we teachers said wasn’t appropriate has now been deemed not fit for purpose. And when I found this out, my heart sank - I simply do not currently have it in me to re write a new curriculum for the school. Partly that is because I have a one and three year old now and I am less willing and able (childcare) to work through the holidays and at weekends but partly it is because in school I simply do it have the time to complete even the bare minimum of tasks that I need to complete to teach effectively and manage a department properly and this is due to a serious increase in demands with no extra time to do it (over the past 8 years or so). To put it into context, by the time I left, none of my PPA time or time before and after school was spent planning or marking (let alone designing a new curriculum). That’s not how I want to feel - I should be excited about another chance to do one of my favourite things about the job.

I strongly feel that no matter what amount of money is thrown at the crisis, until the workload is sorted the retention crisis will go on forever.

Also, management can be a huge problem in some schools. I worked in the same school and when I joined it was almost impossible to get a teaching place there - people only left to retire. I was lucky and grateful to be a part of such a great team and managed by amazing people. Fast forward to new management several years later and the tide has already turned. People, like me, are leaving in their droves and they are leaving mid year (which never happened before). I can think of a few particularly poor management choices that kept fuelling my desire to leave but the one that sticks in my mind was when I was 8 months pregnant and a pupil threw something on purpose at my stomach and nothing happened; no apology (letter or face to face), no loss of privileges, no detention - nothing. That was really the day I decided that I wanted to leave.

Fast forward a few months and I have started my own business and although that has its own set of challenges I am so much happier. I still work with children but now again have the opportunity to feel the joy and rewards that it should bring. I get to spend quality time with my own children at the weekend and in the evenings. We spent the day walking and playing at the park and other lovely things today that previously I just wouldn’t have got round to doing after planning and marking and doing a mountain of paperwork. My hair has stopped falling out and my blood pressure is healthy again. I am sad that this is the end of my teaching story but even sadder about how many others feel the same.

I've known of poor teachers who have escaped to the private sector. Don't assume that private schools only have the best.

This! No money would pay people to teach, it is horrendous and unless the powers that be do something we are in deep, deep trouble. The sensible ones cut and run…

Are you some kind of comedy poster?

What nonsense.

This is rather insulting.

The area in which I work has no grammar schools and - having been to one - I wouldn't chose to work in one.

State educated kids need excellent teachers too.

England is running out of everything.

Thanks Brexit and the Tory party!

Out of interest, why not? Is it the parents? (If it is I think I can understand.)

But why label grammars non-state?

Labour charging VAT on private school fees - Our private school will stop bursaries, stop paying for the big local sports tournaments for all local schools and start charging all schools to use their swimming pool, their theatre and their dance studio - they currently let them use it for free.There will be at least 50 students who can’t afford to stay (they have already given notice so they won’t be charged a term’s leaving fee) so that will be 50 extra students joining our very full local state schools. Those are only the students we know are leaving - there will be more I’m sure. This will be replicated across the country - some smaller private schools will have to close released hundreds into the state system.

Plus, our school has spent 10s of millions in the last 10 years on building the said swimming pool, theatre, business block and music centre. They will now be able to claim back the VAT on these projects going back 10
years.

It’s such a stupid policy by Labour. It will really affect the people on middle incomes and won’t touch those on 100k plus. The money raised will be nothing in the big scheme of things and will cause such a headache locally with the big influx of students. I can guarantee that it will cost our local secondary more in swimming pool fees than they will get from the policy.

The local secondary will just not use the swimming pool.

There will be at least 50 students who can’t afford to stay (they have already given notice so they won’t be charged a term’s leaving fee) so that will be 50 extra students joining our very full local state schools

That seems a bit premature given we haven't even got a date for the election yet? And you can't join a full school.

Give it 10 years and you will see that I am right.

It makes no sense to have hundreds of teachers doing exactly the same lessons when you can have the best teachers in the whole country (or even the whole world).

We had an excellent biology teacher at school fro O level, but when it came to A levels, we got the not so good teacher unfortunately.

I would have loved to have had the lessons that the excellent teacher had and with technology you an have the best teachers in the country. Then AI will be able to answer any questions that the children have.