England is running out of teachers

[noblegiraffe]

Or, to be clear, people who are willing to teach in schools. It has plenty of ex teachers who have vowed never to set foot in a school again.

While everyone seems to understand that you can't expect to see a doctor or dentist anymore, the message about not being able to expect your child to have a teacher anymore doesn't seem to have filtered through in the same way.

The number of cover lessons that kids are having is going through the roof. Some people think that if a kid has an adult in front of them then they are learning something, where kids know if they have a 'supply' timetabled that afternoon they are in for a doss lesson. Some people think that if a kid has a teacher for their subject that the teacher actually knows the subject being taught, which is increasingly not the case. Some people think that if lessons are being planned for those teachers and the teacher just has to 'deliver' them then that will be good enough, which is often not the case.

Exam classes at least used to be protected and given the 'good teachers', which is increasingly no longer the case, with Y11s reporting that they have a variety of supply teachers, even in core subjects.

There was a thread recently where an A-level student hadn't had a teacher for a year, wondering why the school hadn't done anything about it. We cannot magic up teachers! A-level students at my school are increasingly in the position of not having a teacher and having to teach themselves, and schools are now encouraged to put 'no teacher' on UCAS applications as relevant information for universities.

Recent threads about suggesting teachers need to be paid more to boost recruitment, or given a day off a fortnight to boost recruitment have attracted replies about teachers thinking they are special, or lazy, paid well enough already and having enough time off already.

But the education system is in crisis and something needs to drastically change as it's only getting worse.

The DfE's solution is to hire from abroad, at a time when the rest of government is seeking to reduce immigration.
https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/dfe-mulls-boost-international-recruitment

Harris Academy also have the reputation of taking in new teachers, chewing them up and spitting them out.

Maybe not a PE teacher but a history teacher could probably more than adequately teach English.

The number of cover lessons that kids are having is going through the roof. Some people think that if a kid has an adult in front of them then they are learning something, where kids know if they have a 'supply' timetabled that afternoon they are in for a doss lesson. Some people think that if a kid has a teacher for their subject that the teacher actually knows the subject being taught, which is increasingly not the case. Some people think that if lessons are being planned for those teachers and the teacher just has to 'deliver' them then that will be good enough, which is often not the case.

1. Yes - cover lessons due to recruitment issues/illness seems to be on the increase - unions do state cover supervisors ought not be covering more than two weeks/teaching staff should not be covering absent colleagues/supply staff harder to get in some areas
2. apathetic pupils can be like that across the board if disengaged
3. please do not denigrate all cover/supply - kids do not always think they are in for a doss lesson if they know the staff member covering
4. Yes - often you will not get specialists in the subject but that does not mean they cannot deliver the subject
5. please do not denigrate all cover/supply - many of us are jack of all trades, master of one many; this comes with cross-curricular experience and a general knowledge wider than most

I have read this thread with interest as am an ex-Science teacher (I will never go back) still working in the secondary education field in the public sector (NOT the DfE!). I would be earning £46,525 if I was still teaching and am on significantly more for less stress, WFH 3 days a week, a compressed 10 day fortnight into 9 days worked so I can support my ageing parents and no need to work outside my scheduled hours. It is a revelation and pay IS a factor. But I left due to workload and poor behaviour of students and lack of support from management.

Good Luck to your daughter and I hope she finds a way to get qualified so she can earn better money, assuming she enjoys teaching.

Let me guess, the graph was commissioned by the unions and as you are obviously into maths, shows nothing given you don't know what sample of jobs and teachers and private sector average earnings was used.

She’s an ECT. You do understand that means she’s in her first or second year of teaching and with support, will in all likelihood, get better?

The comment about primary school teachers. Wow! I think you misunderstand the complex job they do.

Except that - quite frankly - "more than adequate" should not be enough. I don't want my kids taught by non-specialists even if they are "more than adequate".

No wonder we're shit in the Pisa rankings if this is what we are happy to accept.

I havent read the full thread, but, this stood out to me, and i have a genuine question...

Could it be, young people arent going into teaching, because the majority of the teachers they have as role models, are clearly disillusioned with the job, clearly dont get any pleasure out of it, therefore they arent inspiring future generations into the profession?

My daughter, when at primary school, wanted to be a teacher, now at secondary school, and witnessing the shit show that is her education, she is now in two minds. She has one teacher who still gives her that maybe this is what i want to do mindset, as he is positive, interacts with students in a way hat shows mutual respect, laughs and makes lessons enjoyable in a subject most wouldnt really find enjoyable usually (geography) but the rest, particularly in core subjects, are so bloody miserable. And this comes from my communication with them too. I had to message one last week for various reasons, and what i got back was a droning "woe is my my job is so hard i have to teach 5 classes a day with only 2 free periods a week i cant possibly do something for a single student" unprofessional moanfest.

How is that inspiring students to aspire to a career in teaching? Money isnt everything, my job pays worse than teaching, also requires a degree, continued professional development with ever changing guidelines, plus the hours and holiday are far worse, but i was inspired to do that job by people in that profession.

I don't know how the increasing number of parents who are homeschooling are coping.

IME it’s a mixed bag. I felt forced to choose to HE my child as his relationships with various teachers were becoming more harmful to him. He was regularly punished for being autistic (zoning out when stressed, having vocal tics). He was never rude and the SEN team had his back, but they admitted that the high turnover of teachers was making it more difficult for all pupils, and more so for pupils with SN, and as a result there were more behavioural problems across the board (they were clear that the behaviour was a result of frequently changing staff). He was at a relatively small school with a high number of autistic pupils. He was the 8th in his year to be removed to home educate.

IME parents do the best they can. When their children’s needs are repeatedly ignored, and blamed on poor parenting (sadly a common theme for those of us with ND children), and frequent gaslighting, tempers can flare. It’s not a walk in the park being the parent of a disabled child.

In terms of ds learning it’s much easier and more rewarding for him as he can focus on his interests and I find ways to use those to help him learn in a way that he can. He can tic the day away and it doesn’t result in “reflect and correct” sessions at lunchtime. He is far less anxious.

I was able to adjust my working schedule to accommodate this though, as it became clear that being in school was destroying him. I feel for parents who are stuck with the system as it is though, as children with SN may not have the resilience to cope with declining support and education standards.

I agree with the user name, but I hope you are still in the job in a decade's time. One of the best teachers I've ever worked with- far better than me- left within that time as she couldn't hack it. And it wasn't her fault either- she just wasn't as willing to put with the same level of shit as the rest of us.
I'm glad you love it. It's a marathon, not a sprint- don't burn out!

No, it was conducted by the National Foundation for Educational Research, they report on the teacher labour market each year.

You can read the full report here: https://www.nfer.ac.uk/publications/teacher-labour-market-in-england-annual-report-2024/

And the methodology here: https://www.nfer.ac.uk/media/tctb3ip0/nutr-tlm-2024-methodology-appendix.pdf

You're right it shouldn't be enough but given the awful level of teaching in many schools at the moment adequate is a marked improvement.

There is a huge recruitment crisis, particularly in some subjects.

Apparently here in London we have the best of everything…..but dd (yr 7) has never had a permanent science teacher, a string of supply teachers, most not specific science teachers. Lots of reading books and answering questions alone, next to no lab work.

The school is trying hard to recruit and is by all accounts (according to parents and Ofsted anyway) a good school. I genuinely think they are doing all they can.

Increasingly few can afford to live in London and we can see that playing out in schools, hospitals, care homes etc. Thanks Tories for creating an unaffordable housing bubble where houses are investment vehicles and we have more landlords than teachers.

Yes think I read it last time you were banging on about it and I thought it was crap then because it took a selective set that proved what the report wanted to prove

I’m cover manager at a small secondary in a trust. I’m not allowed to get supply any longer for day to day because of cost. Every long term supply offered is from other continents, with general education degrees, not subject specialists.Core subjects have had no applications for a summer start. Not even ects.

Why is ‘adequately’ enough? We should be fighting for an excellent education for every child in every subject, from someone who knows the subject inside out and has the deep pedagogical understanding to teach it well.

Even at primary level, really good subject knowledge is crucial - not just ‘how to do the process’ or ‘the key facts’, but what are the underlying principles and the common misconceptions to lay a firm foundation. Yes, after a whole number is multiplied by 10, a zero is written in the ones place as a place holder - but a primary teacher teaching ‘write a zero on the end to multiply by 10’ will have pupils who get the right answer in the short term but will come a cropper in multiplying decimals. And that is the case across all subjects, something which makes primary teaching especially challenging as we have to teach equally carefully across all subjects.

And so it starts, a pp mentions discipline and respect and immediately that is being questioned. You know what, this is why people leave teaching. This is partly why education is fucked. I am 50, I have stellar grades on my CV, I graduated from an elite university, I have post graduate qualifications, I went into teaching after a career in the City and I am very good at my job, so if I am standing up in front of 30 Year 7s then they need to know that they have to be quiet and listen. I will have spent a lot of time preparing their lesson and I am so keen for them to learn and progress. But of course there are parents who won’t teach their child to be polite and respectful(quite the opposite in fact), and these children ruin the learning. They stop their peers learning and they don’t attain much themselves.

Too right we should be fighting for excellence but we can't have that right now.

@karriecreamer love that story about the old school worksheets! I'm not sure what inspection system was in place back then. Ofsted have become absolutely ridiculous. They care more about paperwork and box ticking than they do teaching and children. The head of Ofsted hasn't ever been a teacher, which speaks volumes!

A significant part of my role is helping staff to develop and improve their teaching. I absolutely cannot accept that "adequate" is enough, and that any warm body will do.

@Teentaxidriver I'm finding this more and more. I'm lucky enough to work in a fantastic school, with excellent support for staff. We are getting more and more parents, however, that complain of little Johnny has been told off. My daughter was silly once in reception last year, and not once did I question what her teacher was saying! She was made to write an apology letter (with my help!), and surprise surprise, she hasn't done it since, as she knows how disappointed we would be. More and more children don't have any behaviour follow up at home, and we have parents complaining about 'ruining their child's self esteem' by telling them to stop interrupting lessons. It's ridiculous.

I posted that graph today, it was published 4 days ago so not sure what you are on about.

Feel free to read the methodology.

So we should do nothing - nothing - that makes it harder to get back to excellence.

Instead, we make more and more expensive, slipshod, small-minded compromises because ‘it’s adequate’ ‘it’s better than nothing’ - and each time, the route back to excellence is further blocked.

You'd be surprised at how much some independents pay. I took a pay cut and

We haven't had a rise in the 6 yrs I've been there. Love it and no way would I return to state